Etiquette: partner rope replacement

Alpine climbing. I'm leading the entire route per agreement. My rack, my partner's rope. Took a big whipper over an edge. (yes, yes, don't whip on an alpine climb). Core shot his rope at about 7m, making his 60m useless. All safe and finished the day healthy.

But.

Should I buy him a new rope? Split 50/50? What's etiquette?

My instinct is to offer a 50/50 split.

Leader is always responsible for stuck gear placements, regardless of who owns the rack.

But the rope is a shared responsibility IMHO and I'm happy to contribute my fair share.

Thoughts?

Its a 50m now, buy him a beer and call it good. Better yet he buys the beer.

Bernardo Fanti wrote:

Leader is always responsible for stuck gear placements, regardless of who owns the rack.

Really? Never heard of this, seems arbitrary. 

Jonathan Marek wrote:

Really? Never heard of this, seems arbitrary. 

May be. I don't know.

My logic: if one partner chooses to lead, they do so with the knowledge (and responsibility) that they know what they're doing. Leading trad requires thoughtful placement, not just for safety, but for retrievability. As the leader, I carry significantly more responsibility for stuck gear than the follower, even if occasionally the follower is at fault for yarding on marginally overcammed gear and getting it fully stuck.

M M wrote:

Its a 50m now, buy him a beer and call it good. Better yet he buys the beer.

I like this plan...

Bernardo Fanti wrote:

Leader is always responsible for stuck gear placements, regardless of who owns the rack.

Strong disagree! If I am leading and place a perfect nut that is easy to clean and my 2nd can’t manage to clean it - I’m at fault? I’ve seen many newer followers be unable to clean as easy placement, and even some experienced people just aren’t great at cleaning gear.

I generally do 50-50 on replacing lost gear unless someone is egregiously at fault, because it’s usually impossible (and counterproductive) to try and stick all of the blame on one person. Seems like a reasonable approach.

Pff, its still good as a gym rope,for TR setups, or for short leads you've already done.

If someone isn't ready to have their gear used or fallen on they should lead it, wimps.

You had good time..hopefully. Its part of the climbing game.

Bernardo Fanti wrote:

Leader is always responsible for stuck gear placements, regardless of who owns the rack.

But the rope is a shared responsibility IMHO and I'm happy to contribute my fair share.

Thoughts?

I'd pitch in for a replacement, probably not buy him a whole new one. 

gear is on a piece by piece basis.    there are too many variables to say its all on one person. 

A 53m rope is not useless, and a coreshot is just wear and tear.

I think you owe him a 50/50 split on the value of 10m of rope that has depreciated however many years old that rope is. That sounds like a beer to me. Maybe put an extra 10er toward the shared gas bill. 

It would have never even occurred to me to expect money from a climbing partner, if they fell on my rope, and it happened to get a coreshot.

If this is your regular partner, and you presumably alternate whose rope you climb on, you both put wear snd tear on both of your ropes. It is immaterial who was on the sharp end when the rope got damaged.

But offering something towards the purchase of new rope would be much appreciated, I’m sure, especially if you know that your partner is in a tight spot, financially. 

The fact that the rope saved your life would be a good enough payment for me. I'd be kissing both you and the rope that everyone made it down safely. 

Money wise though... I wouldn't expect anything, but wouldn't turn down a small fraction either. I'd never expect replacement for something that wasn't pure negligence.

Bernardo Fanti wrote:

My instinct is to offer a 50/50 split.

Go with that. 

Bernardo Fanti wrote:

Alpine climbing. I'm leading the entire route per agreement. My rack, my partner's rope. Took a big whipper over an edge. (yes, yes, don't whip on an alpine climb). Core shot his rope at about 7m, making his 60m useless. All safe and finished the day healthy.

But.

Should I buy him a new rope? Split 50/50? What's etiquette?

My instinct is to offer a 50/50 split.

Leader is always responsible for stuck gear placements, regardless of who owns the rack.

But the rope is a shared responsibility IMHO and I'm happy to contribute my fair share.

Thoughts?

Buy him a 70m cause you're a cool guy.   

Lena chita wrote:

It would have never even occurred to me to expect money from a climbing partner, if they fell on my rope, and it happened to get a coreshot.

Can I climb with you‽

I’d buy him a new rope and take the 50m.

Anna Brown wrote:

I’d buy him a new rope and take the 50m.

Good plan….then climb exclusively on his new rope 

Bernardo Fanti wrote:

May be. I don't know.

My logic: if one partner chooses to lead, they do so with the knowledge (and responsibility) that they know what they're doing. Leading trad requires thoughtful placement, not just for safety, but for retrievability. As the leader, I carry significantly more responsibility for stuck gear than the follower, even if occasionally the follower is at fault for yarding on marginally overcammed gear and getting it fully stuck.

But you whipped on an Alpine route and core shot their rope. Try applying your same logic to that...

Bernardo Fanti wrote:

May be. I don't know.

My logic: if one partner chooses to lead, they do so with the knowledge (and responsibility) that they know what they're doing. Leading trad requires thoughtful placement, not just for safety, but for retrievability. As the leader, I carry significantly more responsibility for stuck gear than the follower, even if occasionally the follower is at fault for yarding on marginally overcammed gear and getting it fully stuck.

It goes both ways. I expect my partner to be competent at cleaning gear. Why should the leader be more responsible? This should be evaluated on a piece-by-piece basis. The person who got the gear stuck is responsible for getting the gear stuck. It’s also general much easier for the 2nd to hang and use both hands, the nut tool, and a cam-hammer than it is for the leader to place perfect, easy to clean gear every time. And even then, if a regular partner wanted to split hairs over this kind of thing I would think it was pretty uncool. 

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/118319314/stuck-cam-what-is-the-etiquette?page=3

Here's the last discussion I remember on here regarding stuck gear. Mostly people tend towards 50/50 but it largely comes down to communication and expectations. I'd probably ask if they would like a bit of help with the rope but if it was my rope I would just be understanding of the fact that the rope did it's job and not have expectations of payment. Bummer about the core shot though.

If I may be so bold, allow me to put it this way: you fell and that rope of your partner's saved your life, by giving its own? The rope gave the ultimate sacrifice to serve its ultimate duty. How cool is that? 

Pay it forward, buy your partner a rope and hand it to her; a good one she always wanted. Make her day/week/month. Set a precedence of being awesome with your partners. It will come back to you.