Top 10 Best US Large Cities For Climbing

Deven Lewiswrote:

Brian I never said I didn’t like Mr haggard. He just doesn’t embody Bakersfield CA like Korn does I’m not sure if you’ve heard their music before. Here is one of their best. It aint no pancho and lefty but pretty good.

Hahah yes fritz I meant NU.

Dude Pancho and Lefty is Townes Van Zandt. How disrespectful 

PRRosewrote:

Why isn't Colorado Springs part of the discussion? It has a separate identity from Denver and is big enough (on par with SLC and Boise).

Presumably if you are already in the front range it's NBD to move around. And while it has a separate identity (and who's to say Boulder/Golden/Fort Collins don't?), the climbing weather/season/weekend access to crags is the same.

rebootwrote:

Presumably if you are already in the front range it's NBD to move around. And while it has a separate identity (and who's to say Boulder/Golden/Fort Collins don't?), the climbing weather/season/weekend access to crags is the same.

Yeah, no, moving to Jesus Springs is definitely a big deal...

Patrick Lwrote:

Dude Pancho and Lefty is Townes Van Zandt. How disrespectful 

I listen to korn I clearly have no musical inclination. No disrespect I thought Nelson and haggard made the original. Never heard of zandt till just now

Kevin Worrallwrote:

“For multipitch trad, what within 2 hours of SD compared to Calaveras Dome or Lovers Leap?”

For multi pitch, Eagle Peak, @250 pitches, Corte Madera, maybe 150  pitches, El Cajon Mtn, @300 pitches, those 3 with routes up to 500’, some of them “trad”, averaging 300’. I don’t see multi pitch trad as being high priority for the majority of climbers. Quality rock and bomber bolts seem to be popular currently, and SD has both on multi pitch.

Additionally, there are two major areas, currently with @ 100 pitches each, and currently on a need to know basis. As I’ve mentioned SD climbing is in its infancy.

“Tahquitz doesn't measure up IMO (and I used to live in Idy).”

I dunno, Tahquitz has a shitload of good trad routes in a beautiful setting. It is generally low angle, but the stone is excellent.

“For hard steep sport, what does SD have to match Jailhouse?”

There is no match for Jailhouse, but Jailhouse is not for your average climber. San Diego’s best sport climbing, with around 100 pitches has a 100 yd wide wall with 40 80 -100’ overhanging pitches on the best granite you can imagine, plus shaded walls with insanely good vertical stuff with lots of roofs, all in a top notch setting  Access is tricky, location mostly secret, at this point, but it is on BLM land. There are also some steep sport routes, vertical anyway, at Valley of the Moon for Josh lovers.

The Big Three crags mentioned above all have lots of steep sport climbs, some overhanging stuff, and there are numerous small crags with vertical and slightly overhanging stuff. 

“For bouldering, can options near SD compare to the vast amount of quality granite in Tahoe, or the variety of also having limestone, basalt, sandstone, rhyolite, schist, and serpentine boulders all within 2 hours?”

Rainbow Boulders are superb, and possibly will become public, Woodson has boatloads of problems with development continuing, Culp Valley and Jasper, dozens of desert clusters, plus staggering potential beyond that awaiting trails. Boulder Basin, and the tramway boulders is 2 1/2 hrs. Granted, it is all granite, and I’d say the bouldering is better than Tahoe, from what I’ve seen, which isn’t a lot. The Hatchett brothers would have a valid opinion - they live in Tahoe and are owners of the Rainbow Boulders property.

“For summer conditions, what does SD have to compare to climbing in the Sierra at 8,000+ ft at Kirkwood?”

Nothing. But how is that stuff from December thru March?

“Also, given the 1 hour approaches to a lot of the best quality roped climbing cited for SD, is it really even that close once you factor in drive + hike time?”

It does require an effort to get to the good stuff. Corte - one hour plus hike, ECM 1 1/2 to 2 hrs, but it’s close to the city, EP 45 min. There is a major “secret” multi pitch area with a 20 min approach, lots of moderates up to 400’, top notch stone. The positive side of the hiking is the resulting wilderness experience.

“San Diego also lacks reasonable weekend access to true 5-star destination climbing. Sac is 3.5 hours to Yosemite. SD has J-Tree, but, meh, J-Tree. That's my bias though  If you really like J-Tree, SoCal is more appealing.”

Nothing compares to Yosemite, but Tahquitz and Suicide are pretty damn good, Corte Madera and Eagle Peak are on USFS land with no camping fees or restrictions, and no crowds. I think EP has potential to evolve into a minor destination area, but admittedly I’m biased - people occasionally do come from LA and Arizona to climb there. It’s better than Tahquitz or Josh where sport climbing is concerned, and it’s only been public for 10 yrs or so. Josh is an acquired taste, or lack thereof, depending. The Needles aren’t much farther from SD than Sacto, Lone Pine is equal from both. El GranTrono Blanco deserves mentioning again. Bottom line, I think SD offers effectively more climbing than Sacramento, particularly in wintertime.

“In short, SD does has lots of decent local climbing for after work, but falls short in weekend access to great destination climbing. In Sac you're in the gym during the week but have reasonably easy weekend access to some of the best climbing. Which is better? Is convenient access to Woodson really better than weekend access to the northern Sierra?”

See above. 

 

I agree. San Diego Rules!!

rebootwrote:

Presumably if you are already in the front range it's NBD to move around. And while it has a separate identity (and who's to say Boulder/Golden/Fort Collins don't?), the climbing weather/season/weekend access to crags is the same.

The close-in climbing options for the Springs are very different than the options for Boulder (legit part of the Denver area) or Ft. Collins (not so much). There is a big difference in winter climbing access--its about 2 hours longer to Shelf from Boulder as from the Springs.

PRRosewrote:

its about 2 hours longer to Shelf from Boulder as from the Springs.

Conversely, eldo is 2hrs longer from the springs & DIA is farther (e.g. Vegas getaway) & more hassle to get to. If shelf is really your thing you can at least camp for the weekend. Where are you gonna do that around Boulder?

But I suppose it's closer to go even further south from the springs...

hmmm, list is really west-centric.  sure, most of the best is in the west, but there should be some east coast representation.  albuquerque doesn't belong on the list.  it can't even pass a spell check test.  anybody who thinks it belongs on the list has been gettin' high on their own supply (of blue meth...).  somehow chat or something around there should be on the list.  i think the MSA=1M kind of does a disservice here a bit.

denver vs slc for number 1, that's a tough one. a real tough one.  i would give it to denver though because it has a lot more diverse climbing nearby.

slimwrote:

hmmm, list is really west-centric.  sure, most of the best is in the west, but there should be some east coast representation.  albuquerque doesn't belong on the list.  it can't even pass a spell check test.  anybody who thinks it belongs on the list has been gettin' high on their own supply (of blue meth...).  somehow chat or something around there should be on the list.  i think the MSA=1M kind of does a disservice here a bit.

Re: Chatt, CO Springs, Reno and all that. Really trying to keep this as a "major cities" list, with the associated opportunities in those cities. The small to mid size cities are just a different thing. My personal perspective: both my girlfriend and I work in very niche science fields, and us both finding jobs in the same one of those smaller cities is basically a pipe-dream.  When we moved this spring we basically had to go to a major city to make the pieces all line up, and we chose Sac.  Lots of climbers make similar tradeoffs. A major city is (with a few exceptions at the top of the list) not the best place to be a climber, but some are a lot better than others. This list seeks to reflect this.  Have tried out a couple different thresholds to define exactly what cities are "major" enough, and none are perfect. Its a bit qualitative it seems. Places like Chatt just seem too small for this list though.

Agree that we need more Eastern US representation. Not sure if there are any cities on the top-10 I'd be willing to bump off the list though when it comes down to a city-to-city comparison. Would we really remove LA to allow Boston in? Is Charlotte actually better than ABQ in a direct comparison?  Maybe the best solution is to add a second "kids-table" list of the top 5 major eastern/central US cities. Contenders might include Charlotte, Cincinnati, Boston, Hartford, NYC... what else?  San Juan is an interesting wildcard also. I'll add this to the first post.

I still need to reply to Kevin on the grand Sacramento-San Diego faceoff. Tomorrow!

slimwrote:

hmmm, list is really west-centric.  sure, most of the best is in the west, but there should be some east coast representation.  albuquerque doesn't belong on the list.  it can't even pass a spell check test.  anybody who thinks it belongs on the list has been gettin' high on their own supply (of blue meth...).  somehow chat or something around there should be on the list.  i think the MSA=1M kind of does a disservice here a bit.

denver vs slc for number 1, that's a tough one. a real tough one.  i would give it to denver though because it has a lot more diverse climbing nearby.

The post is about the top 10 US cities. The east coast simply isn’t as good for climbing. That’s why a lot of people (such as myself) move out west. Participation trophies don’t count 

slimwrote:

hmmm, list is really west-centric.  sure, most of the best is in the west, but there should be some east coast representation.  albuquerque doesn't belong on the list.  it can't even pass a spell check test.  anybody who thinks it belongs on the list has been gettin' high on their own supply (of blue meth...).  somehow chat or something around there should be on the list.  i think the MSA=1M kind of does a disservice here a bit.

denver vs slc for number 1, that's a tough one. a real tough one.  i would give it to denver though because it has a lot more diverse climbing nearby.

I have lived in Richmond and DC. I also lived in Glenns Falls and dated a girl in Boston. I love Boston and DC, and the Dacks/Gunks are great...so is Seneca and the New. However, I never lasted on the East Coast for more than a year before I was desperate to get back out West. 

The conditions are also a consideration. Winters and summers are less than pleasant in the East, it rains non-stop in the late spring, and then the bugs come. 

Ah, I was waiting for the Californians to stop bickering amongst themselves over which desert enclave one would prefer to have their home burn in so we can finally get back to the East coast bashing :-) That train's never late!

Burn baby burn

 I love New England, but as a climber, it would be worse than hell for me. Oh, and we don't have black flies here. & we have a lot of fourteen thousand foot mountains, & hundreds of thousands of very large boulders everywhere. 

On the other hand, if I were not a climber the pancakes & maple syrup alone would make the northeast worth living in. 

Before we commence with East Coast bashing... California isn't done with internal bickering just yet! Let's get back to this question of Sacramento vs. San Diego.

Kevin makes some great points about what is available around San Diego. I am getting "biased local developer" vibes, so I'd like to hear some input from others on whether these areas are as good as claimed, but in any case it sounds like local San Diego climbing is better than I previously gave it credit for.  But there are two big issues that need to be addressed: secret crags, and hard climbing.

1. Secret crags: Kevin indicates the best San Diego sport climbing is at a secret crag, and the best bouldering is privately owned. Is that secret crag the sort of place that is unpublicized on the internet, but locally anyone is welcome? Or is it an exclusive invite-only sort of situation? Same question for the bouldering. In other words, if some random climber moves to San Diego, will they actually get to climb at these places in a timely manner? If it isn't publicly available, it shouldn't count here. And if this knocks the best local sport climbing and bouldering out of consideration, that would drop San Diego in the ranking.

2. Hard climbing and bigger challenges: Kevin discounts the importance of places like Calaveras Dome and Jailhouse by saying "I don’t see multi pitch trad as being high priority for the majority of climbers." and "Jailhouse is not for your average climber". While these statements may be true, I disagree with the conclusion that all that matters is climbing that appeals to the average climber. I would argue instead: Availability of hard climbing matters. This related to both physically harder sport climbing, and also bigger trad multipitch challenges. A good climbing city will not just meet the current needs of the average climbing, but will also provide good opportunities to a wider range of climbers (including the upper end), and give the current average climber the means to progress. Sacramento has these things to a much greater extent than San Diego.

Sport climbing provides a good example of this. San Diego has a good selection of 5.12, but it appears that once you hit 5.13 the options thin out dramatically (al least at the public crags).  5.13 is a pretty common grade these days, and many motivated young climbers reach this grade if the resources (and routes) are available to them. You want to have some headroom above your current grade, since it gives you another tier of local routes above your current ability to work toward, and also be be surrounded by other climbers who climb those grades. A climber in San Diego is a lot more likely to hit a progression ceiling due to more limited local hard-climbing resources. Sacramento does not have this issue - good quality 5.13-5.14 sport climbing is available both winter (Jailhouse) and summer (various Tahoe crags). A motivated and improving climber in Sacramento can have routes to do and continue to progress for a long time.

Similar situation for longer routes. Once a San Diego climber is comfortable on the 3-5 pitch routes available around San Diego, Idyllwild, etc, they are going to have to drive a long way for anything bigger or more committing. There is not reasonable weekend access to all-day multipitch routes. Again this puts a ceiling on how far a climber can progress locally. If you have to travel long distances to level up, it is no longer a good city for you.  Sacramento doesn't have this issue; there's a lot of great "training ground" short multipitch 1.5 hours away, and then by travelling 2 hours to Cal Dome or 3.5 hours to Yosemite, climbers have weekend access to places they can really level-up on long routes and even big walls.

In short, I think Kevin makes a solid case that San Diego has great convenient local climbing that appeals to the average climber. But Sacramento's climbing resources offer more incentive and opportunity to progress, in both the athletic and adventure realms. The best climbing cities are those that help you become a better climber. Based on this Sacramento > San Diego.

jdejacewrote:

...so we can finally get back to the East coast bashing :-) That train's never late!

I was born and raised in NJ. I lived in CT for 22 years. I started climbing in the Gunks in 1972 and climbed there until 2000. I moved to SLC 21 years ago and have never, ever once looked back. The bashing is well deserved! What's more, you east coasters know it!

If all one cares about is rock climbing (as stated in the OP), sure. I've not made an argument for the East coast in this thread because of those specific criteria. 

I have no ties to the Northeast and could get a six figure job in any of the cities in the OP within a month, but I'm not leaving Vermont. Specifically, you couldn't pay me any amount to live in SLC. Horses for courses and all that. Best this way for everybody. 

I think the bashing is entirely dependent on which part of the West Coast and East Coast you are comparing. I would take New Hampshire over Washington 8 out of 10 times but not NYC over Seattle. 

Who is JCM and why do we care about his list so much?

San Diego> Sacramento, so many low time comitment options in San Diego. 

Kevin Mokracek wrote:

Who is JCM and why do we care about his list so much?

Brother this is just a place to waste time and JCM provided a good spot and topic to do that.