Next belay device after a Cinch?

Be nice.

A friend is a long time Cinch user, and is thinking to retire his old faithful device.

What is a good current belay device that is worked similarly to a Cinch (old school style)? Hand habits are hard to change. He hates grigris, so don't bother going there.

Yeah the Vergo went through recalls, but that's years ago now. Is it handled the same way as a Cinch?

Thanks! 

Best, Helen

I personally won't use either device and would be reluctant to climb with a new partner who used one.

That being said, the Vergo is very similar to the Cinch, just a bit harder to pay out rope but also a bit quicker to lock down.

The general motion is the same, paying rope out to the side with the guide hand, rather than upwards as with a grigri.

Threading the rope is slightly clumsier on the Vergo, but not hard once you are used to it.

The transition from the Cinch to a Vergo is easy and your friend will probably be satisfied.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp55jG6mF4A

Mark E Dixonwrote:

I personally won't use either device and would be reluctant to climb with a new partner who used one.

That being said, the Vergo is very similar to the Cinch, just a bit harder to pay out rope but also a bit quicker to lock down.

The general motion is the same, paying rope out to the side with the guide hand, rather than upwards as with a grigri.

Threading the rope is slightly clumsier on the Vergo, but not hard once you are used to it.

The transition from the Cinch to a Vergo is easy and your friend will probably be satisfied.

Anything with similar hand placement? 

I'm hoping to round up a whole mess of devices for him to try out, but I think it's gonna be learn new hands....even for a grigri. 

I learned on, and still use, an ATC, but those hands are fine with a grigri and a lot of other devices. That basic PBUS belay. 

Thanks! I trust him to catch me, but we both know the Cinch's days are numbered. It's time.

Best, Helen

Why is he giving up the cinch?

The hand placement is basically the same on Cinch and Vergo.

vergo

The Vergo has very similar hand placement to how Tango said to hold the Cinch (but everyone had their own way of holding it so that might affect your friend's muscle memory.) Device design molds to the finger underneath the device and the thumb on top. Pays out rope to the left of the belayer rather than up towards the climber. Not a good device for left handed belayers. Have not found paying out rope to be easier or harder than the cinch as stated above. It's a great device and my go-to for freeclimbing with ropes thinner than my normal bigwall rope.

Vergo is perfectly fine. None of my climbers died yet.

And, why is your friend retiring Cinch? The pin can be replaced

This is going to be total overkill and spendy, but a Taz Lov3 is certified as a belay device. It is a straight-through-device which rotates when loaded but also has a subtle cam on the inside. I bought mine for soloing, but I have used it many times to belaying leaders and belaying up the 2nd to the anchor.

See page 4 for illustration on cinch-like hand positions.

https://taz3d.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/taz_lov3_fr_eng-201218.pdf

the standard GriGri is my favoite. I used to use the Cinch a lot, but found that it wore out too quick. My grigri2 has lasted me for years.

jacob Dwrote:

the standard GriGri is my favoite. I used to use the Cinch a lot, but found that it wore out too quick. My grigri2 has lasted me for years.

Here is what OP posted in the first post:

 He hates grigris, so don't bother going there.

Noel Zwrote:

This is going to be total overkill and spendy, but a Taz Lov3 is certified as a belay device. It is a straight-through-device which rotates when loaded but also has a subtle cam on the inside. I bought mine for soloing, but I have used it many times to belaying leaders and belaying up the 2nd to the anchor.

See page 4 for illustration on cinch-like hand positions.

https://taz3d.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/taz_lov3_fr_eng-201218.pdf

Lol, those are not "cinch-like hand positions" shown in the pdf. 

This (skip to 1:30) is the cinch-like hand positioning and horizontal paying out of rope (unlike the vertical paying out of rope for almost all other devices except for the Vergo) 

Also, considering that the Taz Lov3 weighs more than twice as much (380g) as the Cinch (172g) and almost twice as much as the Vergo (195g), AND costs almost 3x as much as the Vergo,  I have a feeling this person miiiiiiight balk at your suggestion. 

The Vergo seems like the best choice.  I have used pre and post recall Vergos.  It’s a really brilliant device but not everyone is a fan.  Great for people who don’t really like the Grigri.  

Is your friend opposed to something like the Gigajul as well? Nothing like the Cinch in the way it handles (it's like a tuber, after all) but, might be something worth giving a try while testing devices. 

Nathan Doylewrote:

Is your friend opposed to something like the Gigajul as well? Nothing like the Cinch in the way it handles (it's like a tuber, after all) but, might be something worth giving a try while testing devices. 

When it really counts? We rely on muscle memory. That's why I'm thinking get something that feels like, and uses the same motions, as the cinch. This is my primary climbing partner, and we do crap with each other that isn't the single pitch, low commitment shit we'd stick to with you random MP peeps. 

On my side of it? 

I am an ATC user, so my other devices to go to are the same hands to operate them, for the most part. I won't have to think, when it really matters, and I've caught some big falls now. I've also messed around in the gym, working my hardest to defeat the devices and I'm pretty satisfied. 

I'm gonna see if someone local has a vergo we can try out, and will meet us at the gym to see how the partner likes it.

Thanks, though! 

Best, Helen

Tyler Bjorkmanwrote:

The Vergo seems like the best choice.  I have used pre and post recall Vergos.  It’s a really brilliant device but not everyone is a fan.  Great for people who don’t really like the Grigri.  

Agreed. I own so many belay devices. I do not, however, own the vergo. A few friends love them, so they have put one on me a few times. I also love it once I get used to it; feeds rope smoother than anything else I've ever used.

It's just very different than my normal mode of operation, so I haven't found the desire to buy one. I wouldn't hesitate if coming from something similar though.

All, a friend here had a new Vergo to try. We did, it's a good fit for my Cinch friend, so I bought it, everyone's happy! 

Thanks again, all! H.