Should Extreme Unction in Ferguson Canyon have a bolt/pin added to protect the crux?

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

4 people deck in the same spot is worth a serious investigation...

Not in this case at all. 4 people decking out of the 10's of thousands of leads in its 40 years of existence means there were 4 major operator errors. Nothing more.There are dozens/hundreds of routes like this across the country.

 and some sort of recommendation be a warning in the guide or a bolt.

In the guide book and MP, sure. Bolt, no.

   the funny part is the FA has suggested placing a bolt...

No, he did not. He merely said he wouldn't have an issue with it if someone placed a bolt. That's a lot different from suggesting placing a bolt.

I’ve led it and believe it’s reasonable and quite protectable without a pin/bolt. So one more vote for not bolting it.

Amend the route description so people have a heads up that it’s tricky. And sure, if Les gives his approval for a bolt, that obviously matters more than my opinion.

That said, I would like to see the community keep the integrity of climbing intact and not choose to hammer the rock into submission so we can “send” or climb any route indiscriminately and feel completely safe doing it.

Michael Boltonwrote:

Could we get a note added to the route description so people are more aware? I realize there are comments for the route describing some of the ground falls, but putting a note in the actual route description could help inform potential leaders of the need to be extra careful with gear placements at the roof.

I have already done that ... see my post near the top of page 2. Edit to add that the improvements have been incorporated.

Allen Sandersonwrote:

I have already done that ... see my post near the top of page 2. Edit to add that the improvements have been incorporated.

Awesome, thanks. Well worded. I didn’t consider that my app displays the last iteration of the route description that was downloaded and does not have the most recent edit (I mainly browse MP on my phone.)

"Retaliation is a  scary bitch. It has a warning in the guidebook (at least the Webster addition)  Black lung I remember one wreck there but not if it was serious. sprained ankles and stitches don't really count"

Nick, your wrong on the warning and just because you can't remember anyone seriously hurting themselves on Black Lung does not make it so. Actually, I think Ed's description for Black Lung "well protected - if you can hang on" describes EU to a tee. I agree on Childrens Crusade, we rescued a guy who cracked his head open on that one but you are talking about a bolt in the wrong place. This is all about gear placements that if you get it right, you will have no issues.

Cannon Cliff is a serious place and a huge step up to what this subject is all about, not even in the same ball park.

Have a good summer mate and be well.

pretty sure Eds book gives you a heads up that Retaliation will need your attention.  I also know how to read between the lines with his descriptions. If he calls it an interesting pitch  you better bring your A game.  

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

pretty sure Eds book gives you a heads up that Retaliation will need your attention.  I also know how to read between the lines with his descriptions. If he calls it an interesting pitch  you better bring your A game.  

Learning to read the line is way more important than reading someone elses description. Just sayin.

if a bolt is added and you don't like it, don't clip it. You don't order dinner for me so don't tell ME how to climb, climb for yourself.

Steve Senftwrote:

if a bolt is added and you don't like it, don't clip it. You don't order dinner for me so don't tell ME how to climb, climb for yourself.

This argument is flawed. Should a bolt be added the bolter is forcing the climber to make a potentially reckless decision where there wouldn't otherwise be one, it would be decidedly foolish to skip a bolt. Ergo, by adding the bolt the bolter is telling the climber how to climb, not the other way around.

Steve Senftwrote:

You don't order dinner for me so don't tell ME how to climb, climb for yourself.

You can't get egg foo young at Pizza Hut.

Steve Senftwrote:

if a bolt is added and you don't like it, don't clip it. You don't order dinner for me so don't tell ME how to climb, climb for yourself.

Yeah that's not how this works. 

Steve Senftwrote:

if a bolt is added and you don't like it, don't clip it. You don't order dinner for me so don't tell ME how to climb, climb for yourself.

And I like my bolts three feet apart so I can top rope the whole thing. Oh wait, you can already do that.

If you don’t like the risk of lead you can always top rope. This is an easily accessible option on this route. This shouldn’t encouraged but I’d rather folks top rope than install a bolt on a classic, well-protected climb just so that they can lead it to inflate their tick count.

Charlie Swrote:

I usually get at least 3 pieces (#0.5, #0.75, a tricam for fun, and a #0.3) in beneath the roof and a #1 at the lip before pulling the roof.

I fell here many years ago when I was a budding 5.10 climber.  Fear of falling on gear was categorically the reason I was a 5.8 climber vs. a 5.10 climber.  I fell at the roof and the gear held.  It changed my trad climbing game forever.  This climb started a new chapter in my climbing career.

When I clicked on this, I thought it was about adding a bolt to the "up-side down staircase" at the start which was always kind of weird.  Surprised about it being at the roof.

Nick, I'm really sorry about your accident and hope you make a full recovery.

I had exactly the same reaction. I thought they wanted a bolt at the start.

This is such an obvious crux with a no-hands rest on a short climb. I've never climbed it without placing multiple equali-esqued pieces there. It's a natural placement. I agree with the other posters that this is just climbed so often that there's inevitably mistakes.

This is not to knock the OP. We all make mistakes or risk based decisions that don't pan out like we thought they would.

Steve Senftwrote:

if a bolt is added and you don't like it, don't clip it. You don't order dinner for me so don't tell ME how to climb, climb for yourself.

If a bolt is added and it is < 10 ft off route, I sure as fuck am gonna clip it that's just how I roll man you know that.

EDIT: okay I need to clarify before I get called out here <30 ft off route.

Jack. them shiny bolt thingys have Really powerfull magnets in them ;) 

Steve Senftwrote:

if a bolt is added and you don't like it, don't clip it. You don't order dinner for me so don't tell ME how to climb, climb for yourself.

So grown up. 

I know how to solve this problem.  The climb should be downgraded to 2 stars, its not that great.  Its short, greasy, and gross.  There were a few people that got my b-cheese on their hands after I climbed it a little while ago.  I for one don't understand why it gets 4 stars in the guidebook.  3 stars would be generous.  It's a 2 star route and you know it.  Downgrade and less people will be dismayed.

idk, i kinda thought it was a cool route for fergy. 

The upside-down staircase makes it memorable.

Steve Senftwrote:

if a bolt is added and you don't like it, don't clip it. You don't order dinner for me so don't tell ME how to climb, climb for yourself.

Respectfully, that is not how it works.