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Multiple haul bags... multiple swivels?

Original Post
Sam Skovgaard · · Port Angeles, WA · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 208

I don't like having my haul bags linked choo-choo train style; it's nice to have your pair of bags at the same, accessible height at the anchor.

When rigging the bags side by side with a single swivel on a slabby route, sometimes the bags spin on their own axes, twisting up their haul straps.

Is anyone rigging a swivel for each bag in such a setup?  Does it work better?

Kauait · · Wheels be turnin. · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 0

1 swivel - 2 webbings.(1 to each bag.)

Fail Falling · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 916

I connect two bags directly to a single swivel (via biner, no webbing extension) and have never had the bags spin on their own straps (even on slab) because the weight of one bag against the other prevents this. How are you connecting your two  bags to the swivel?

Sam Skovgaard · · Port Angeles, WA · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 208
Fail Falling wrote:

I connect two bags directly to a single swivel (via biner, no webbing extension) and have never had the bags spin on their own straps (even on slab) because the weight of one bag against the other prevents this. How are you connecting your two  bags to the swivel?

From top to bottom:

Far end hauler

Swivel

Large oval locker

Pair of lockers, one for each bag

Connected to haul straps

The straps getting twisted doesn't happen very often, honestly.  I wonder if giving each bag its own swivel would lead them to roll better across the wall, maybe less wear and tear on the bag material?  I don't know, maybe I'm over thinking it...

Quinn Hatfield · · Los Angeles · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0

My setup:



I messed around with a ton of rigs.. I felt like this had the least vertical hang (bags not too low ) with the most horizontal spread (12” apart) and very easy to remove a bag and separate farther as long as your Docker is on the spine and link is on the gate side..
Sam Skovgaard · · Port Angeles, WA · Joined Oct 2017 · Points: 208
Quinn Hatfield wrote:

My setup:



I messed around with a ton of rigs.. I felt like this had the least vertical hang (bags not too low ) with the most horizontal spread (12” apart) and very easy to remove a bag and separate farther as long as your Docker is on the spine and link is on the gate side..

That looks pretty clean with the quicklinks, thanks, Quinn.

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

That looks pretty good, Quinn, but W(hy)TF are you using biners on the short strap of the haul bag? Do you simply like to work really hard to do an easy task? 

Fail Falling · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 916
Mark Hudon wrote:

That looks pretty good, Quinn, but W(hy)TF are you using biners on the short strap of the haul bag? Do you simply like to work really hard to do an easy task? 

FYI, Mark is talking about this: 

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

Tie a 3’ loop of 5mil onto the short strap as shown.

The biner is your Main Haul Bag Biner, it would be the locker shown in Quinn’s photo.

Run the cord as shown.

Do you see it? Do you see the 2:1 mechanical advantage you’ve just created?

Pull up on the loop and then pinch all three (doubled) strands and tie a Munter through the Main Haul Bag Biner, secure it with a couple half hitches down along the three doubled strands.
To release, peck at the doubled cord, release the half hitches and the Munter.

I’m way older than most (I’d bet that I’m older that all of the current wall climbers who post here.) of you and for me to still be climbing walls I have to use as little strength IN EVERY SITUATION to maximize my chances of success.

Use your brain, not your brawn.

Mikey Schaefer · · Reno, NV · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 233

Why is the docking cord tied to the master point of the haulbag biner?  I always just tie directly through the webbing strap or that little loop down where the strap meets the the actual haulbag.  Then when the bag is docked the master lock and short strap biner are totally loose and everything can be unclipped if needed.

And does everyone just rock a far end hauler all the time?  Is that the new way?  

Quinn Hatfield · · Los Angeles · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0
Mark Hudon wrote:

That looks pretty good, Quinn, but W(hy)TF are you using biners on the short strap of the haul bag? Do you simply like to work really hard to do an easy task? 

You mean there is an easier way than hooking the top of your foot under the bag and pulling your hip out of socket while you wrestle the biner with both hands?? 

Mark Hudon · · Reno, NV · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 420

I like the idea of tying it down on that Yellow grab strap on the Metolius bags.
Yeah, that part of the far end hauling system seems to be pretty standard now. 

Ben Hoste · · New Paltz, NY · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 879

Recently had my first big wall experience in Yosemite, what an amazing experience. I tried to convince my partner to use this cord method for the short strap of the haul bag. He insisted it wouldn't be an issue and wanted to use a carabiner on the short strap. Rather than fight with him, I thought, I'll just bring the cord and when he can't open the bags we'll swap out the crab for the cord. Sure enough, at the end of day 1 at our bivy he went to open our bags and couldn't do it. He was like, "you're gonna laugh, but I can't get it off, I can't open the bag, you were right." Gave me a good chuckle. Got the cord rigged on there and we didn't have an issue the rest of the climb.

A big shout out to Mark and Kevin (and everyone else) who has shared amazing stories and advice on this forum and online in the past. Reading through these posts was both inspiring and incredibly helpful. Now, with a couple easy Zion and Valley walls to my name I'm looking forward to stepping it up. 

(p.s. Also @Kevin, we ran into your partner Ben after you came off Never Never Land, who told us you had left a gallon at Thanksgiving Ledge. Big thanks, the heat was intense and having some extra water really helped us out.)

Quinn Hatfield · · Los Angeles · Joined Oct 2018 · Points: 0
Mikey Schaefer wrote: And does everyone just rock a far end hauler all the time?  Is that the new way?  

Yes..

No knot, no knot protector, no lower-out line 

Mikey Schaefer · · Reno, NV · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 233

I'm down with the no knot or knot protector.  Haven't used one for years.  I've been attaching my bags with a big prusik hitch,  then a foot or two of slack and clip the haul line in as a backup.  The prusik is essentially sacrificial and since it doesn't have any sharp edges I think it reduces the chances of it getting caught on stuff.  If I need a far end hauler I just put it on between the prusik and backup knot which is super easy to do as there is slack there.

I couldn't find a swivel for the pic, but easy to just put one in there.    The orange cord is the docking cord.

Fail Falling · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 916
Mikey Schaefer wrote:

I'm down with the no knot or knot protector.  Haven't used one for years.  I've been attaching my bags with a big prusik hitch,  then a foot or two of slack and clip the haul line in as a backup.  The prusik is essentially sacrificial and since it doesn't have any sharp edges I think it reduces the chances of it getting caught on stuff.  If I need a far end hauler I just put it on between the prusik and backup knot which is super easy to do as there is slack there.

Pretty slick.

Fail Falling · · @failfalling - Oakland, Ca · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 916
Ben Hoste wrote:

(p.s. Also @Kevin, we ran into your partner Ben after you came off Never Never Land, who told us you had left a gallon at Thanksgiving Ledge. Big thanks, the heat was intense and having some extra water really helped us out.)

That's awesome to hear. We figured with the summer heat coming, couldn't have too much "Thank God" water cached up on that ledge. 

Alex Abrams · · Bishop, CA · Joined Jan 2014 · Points: 95

For people who use a micro trax for your far end hauler, do you typically haul on a static line? I prefer to haul on a dynamic but have noticed some significant wear on the rope from the micro using that system.

Mtn Cat · · Denver, CO · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 21
Mikey Schaefer wrote:

I'm down with the no knot or knot protector.  Haven't used one for years.  I've been attaching my bags with a big prusik hitch,  then a foot or two of slack and clip the haul line in as a backup.  The prusik is essentially sacrificial and since it doesn't have any sharp edges I think it reduces the chances of it getting caught on stuff.  If I need a far end hauler I just put it on between the prusik and backup knot which is super easy to do as there is slack there.

I couldn't find a swivel for the pic, but easy to just put one in there.    The orange cord is the docking cord.

I'm curious about this. Are you using the prusik to avoid loading & welding the main knot? Have you run into issues with the prusik catching on an edge and getting pushed down until it's up against the main knot? It doesn't seem like it would be a major issue because you could just reset it once it gets up to the next belay, but wouldn't your main knot be exposed and unprotected in the meantime?

And if you're putting a swivel into that system, where are you locating it? Does it go below the biner with the prusik & main knot, and then the straps clip into the bottom of the swivel?

Skot Richards · · Lakewood, CA · Joined May 2020 · Points: 0

Here’s my set up...

I’ve gone through a bunch of different components and configurations,  this one by far works the best.... 

Russ Walling · · Flaky Foont, WI. Redacted… · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 1,216

G’damn you guys complicate things....

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Big Wall and Aid Climbing
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