Bellingham WA General

What's up let's get a Bham thread going. I spotted a bolt in a roof crack right off the fragrance lake trail the other day. Anyone have any info? Looked kinda hard. 

I used to live up there. My understanding is there was someone who bolted a bunch of stuff on oyster dome and in that general area but used a lot of hardware store bolts. Not climbing grade bolts. It's a marine environment, so I would definitely make sure you get good beta before you clip anything. Staff at the Alpine Institute might know more. 

If your looking to develop there are some sweet sandstone/choss about 1 mile north east of that lake that looks undeveloped, I can send you a pin of it.

The fragrance lake roof looks awesome, and I want to climb it. I saw a cascade climbers post from a while ago saying it was A2, but I'm not sure. 

I would be down to help on a facelift of some of the coastal crags. Oyster Dome needs some love and so does Julia's. Removing some of the hardware without damaging the rock seems challenging given the sandstone is so soft. I would just do the work if I knew the right techniques to prevent drilling new holes. The bouldering development at the ledges is ongoing, and if we don't dig, most rock is safe to scrape moss. 

In regular Bham fashion, we should plan to do a meetup and then never follow through. 

Spencer Moore wrote:

The fragrance lake roof looks awesome, and I want to climb it. I saw a cascade climbers post from a while ago saying it was A2, but I'm not sure. 

I would be down to help on a facelift of some of the coastal crags. Oyster Dome needs some love and so does Julia's. Removing some of the hardware without damaging the rock seems challenging given the sandstone is so soft. I would just do the work if I knew the right techniques to prevent drilling new holes. The bouldering development at the ledges is ongoing, and if we don't dig, most rock is safe to scrape moss. 

In regular Bham fashion, we should plan to do a meetup and then never follow through. 

Hit up WARP (Washington anchor replacement program) if you are serious. They will train you and give you all the hardware if you apply for a grant.

saign charlestein wrote:

Hit up WARP (Washington anchor replacement program) if you are serious. They will train you and give you all the hardware if you apply for a grant.

In particular spencer if you sign up for the anchor replacement class try to figureout if Scott Underwood is teaching it. He has probably installed more glue-ins than the rest of the state combined.

That's good to know. I took a look at their website and AAI is listed for basic instruction. I have bought hangers from them before so I know they have hardware as well. WARP seems to have indefinitely postponed classes, but I might just call around anyway to see what things are looking like now that things are opening up. Does anyone know what the local ethic is for replacing bolts? I know if you are going to add a bolt or retro bolt you ask the FA, but if you're doing a facelift does anyone care? I'm not sure Oyster Dome has been regularly climbed or inspected in a long time. I zipped up to the top via the trail this weekend and noticed one of the anchor hangers is missing now too, so you can't even pretend like you can safely descend the route to inspect the rest of the cliff face. 

Spencer Moore wrote:

Does anyone know what the local ethic is for replacing bolts? I know if you are going to add a bolt or retro bolt you ask the FA, but if you're doing a facelift does anyone care? I'm not sure Oyster Dome has been regularly climbed or inspected in a long time. I zipped up to the top via the trail this weekend and noticed one of the anchor hangers is missing now too, so you can't even pretend like you can safely descend the route to inspect the rest of the cliff face. 

I am totally shooting from the hip here so I defer to anyone with actual knowledge about the crag. I would start by emailing WCC and trying to figureout who has been rebolting the most up there. I know there are issues with bats and land management so I would be reluctant to just go out there and replace the bolts. If that leads to a dead end I would try reaching out to Brooks Middleton/Jim Thompson since they have been putting up new routes at Mt. Erie (I don't know either of these guys at all) but they might have a reason for not doing anything up there. If thats a dead end I would reach out to people putting up the new boulders up there and see what they know, some of the boulders are rather large and I would imagine required a bolt to clean though they may have been placing temporary bolts. Scott was pretty busy last time I bugged him but if you reach out to him, if he responds he is probably the most helpful person with regards to bolting that I have ever met. In general most developers are actually psyched if someone wants to help them because 99% talk about developing yet no one actually wants to get their hands dirty. If you come down to North Bend I can show you how to install mechanical bolts but Erie/Bellingham definitely requires a more intement knowledge than I have.

For just general facelift most people wouldn't care but I imagine the rock there is very fragile and I would probably recommend cleaning via leaf blower then using a toilet type brush for the rest. Specifically to the bolting it might require titatium due to its closeness to the water I would not trust the bolts. My other concern would be visibility to hikers, you really don't want hikers to see you leaf blowing off a rock climb. If you are within view of a popular hiking trail you definitely want have verification that what your doing is okay (I have known people to have SAR called on them during an FA, land mangers getting mad and Karens can go krazy).

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

I know there are issues with bats and land management so I would be reluctant to just go out there and replace the bolts. 

I think this is the main issue with Oyster Dome. As far as I am aware the DNR closed access to the Bat Caves because of some sort of disease the bats were getting as a result of humans going up there. This is the only information I can find about it: washingtonclimbers.org/inde…

It's a shame because the crack up there, Hanging Loose, is incredible! Or at least it is if you live in this area. Definitely worth hiking to the top and rapping in for.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/108348710/hanging-loose

A lot of the routes on Oyster Dome were originally developed by Jason Henrie and Kris Taylor. 

Princess Puppy Lovr wrote:

I am totally shooting from the hip here so I defer to anyone with actual knowledge about the crag. I would start by emailing WCC and trying to figureout who has been rebolting the most up there. I know there are issues with bats and land management so I would be reluctant to just go out there and replace the bolts. If that leads to a dead end I would try reaching out to Brooks Middleton/Jim Thompson since they have been putting up new routes at Mt. Erie (I don't know either of these guys at all) but they might have a reason for not doing anything up there. If thats a dead end I would reach out to people putting up the new boulders up there and see what they know, some of the boulders are rather large and I would imagine required a bolt to clean though they may have been placing temporary bolts. Scott was pretty busy last time I bugged him but if you reach out to him, if he responds he is probably the most helpful person with regards to bolting that I have ever met. In general most developers are actually psyched if someone wants to help them because 99% talk about developing yet no one actually wants to get their hands dirty. If you come down to North Bend I can show you how to install mechanical bolts but Erie/Bellingham definitely requires a more intement knowledge than I have.

Word, I will hit you up in the DMs if my research goes nowhere. I spoke to Gabriel Cisneros from WCC about scrubbing moss in the chucks, and the consensus was go ahead, just don't dig out too much. The impact from digging is pretty heavy, and the WCC crews that spent a long time developing the Lost Ledge Boulders put in a lot of work to make sure that the forest service was on board for future development. I really love the Ledges, and the bouldering is spectacular. A lot of really great lines aren't climbed enough to permanently keep moss away, so a lot of it is scrubbed back if someone ends up wanting to climb it. The bouldering community in Bellingham at the moment is fairly active on facebook so I've heard, but I don't operate there so I have no idea what the latest news is. I have a few lines that I was working on last summer but either didn't finish cleaning or didn't finish projecting. to fully establish the route. I am in no way trying to claim being a developer, but I do like dragging a push broom into the woods to scrape off moss. 

WAVE bolts are really good with the coastal setting, but SS expansion bolts are also okay so long as they're set right IMO. A few of the climbs at the Boat Wall have newer expansion bolts, and for sure someone put a new permahanger up at Julia's on 5 Deadly Venoms. The problem with that crag is that someone epoxied over some of the bolts and the anchors in order to safe guard them from weather, I guess? The result though, is a loose bolt that can't be tightened with a spinning hanger. The gear on those routes are spaced for courage already. Hell, even the rope ladder leading up to the crag could be replaced at some point with actual trail building. 

Overall, the crags that are made out of Chuckanut sandstone are fragile and prone to crumbling or losing key holds when wet. Some of the routes that don't get sun are especially prone. Some of the rock formations that would otherwise be really cool to climb are never dry, and don't clean well, so aren't developed. BUT, once you get a good condition week, the friction boulder problems are so good. It's a very cool style of climbing that doesn't really exist anywhere else in Washington. If you get a chance, Aeolian and Snaked are two super cool lines.

I have called the park, and my buddy Neil has called the DNR, and they said that so long as you don't develop a marked trail and so long as you don't disturb (climb in the bat caves) the actual cliff face is fine. Take that for hearsay, but I will try and email and get it in writing and submit an edit to the MP page or the WCC page.

If bolting in Chuckanut sandstone, consider glue in bolts.  Its probably the only truly safe type of bolt for that rock.  Most of the old expansion bolts scattered throughout the Chuckanuts move around in the hole, since the rock is so soft in most places.  Also be cautious about what your developing, even more so in the boulders.  Massive pieces of Chuckanut sandstone have come off and seriosuly injured or killed climbers.  Definitely spend some time making sure the boulder you're getting under is safe.  

I wouldn't trust the bolts in the Fragrance Lake roof crack.  They are at least 2 decades old, maybe closer to 3 and are expansion bolts. I think one of them would pull straight down if fallen on, which can't be good. 

Bellingham recommendation would be contact Art Lim Bellingham Climbers Group. History look up Dallas Kloke’s Boulders and Cliffs, climbers guide to lowland rock in Skagit Whatcom counties, 1971.  Craig Bruntil preceded Jason and Kris. Before him was Scott masonholder, Rich Carlstad, Reed Tindall, Dave Davis, Garret Gardiner, and a few more of the 70 + years old crew.

Titanium glue-ins are the only long term solution for sea environments, but they are not recommended for exploration of new routes. If you put a glue-in in the wrong location it can only be removed by heating up the glue with a torch. Sorry, but I find it a horrifying thought to be hanging on a nylon rope holding a flaming torch. 

Best removable bolt for sea environments is the Fixe Triplex bolt, made from PLX / duplex stainless steel.  PLX bolts and hangers are recommended for sea environments & highly corrosive limestone. 304 stainless steel is not recommended for sea environments.  The Triplex bolt is a bomber sleeve anchor that can be removed & reused.  If you have any questions about their condition, they can removed and be checked.  Washington isn't Thailand & even 304 stainless will likely last for a few years before developing dangerous corrosion.

As an update, I contacted AAI about any local development, and they mentioned that a former guide rebolted quite a lot of Julia's about 10 years ago. Also, WARP isn't doing classes on bolting techniques for Covid reasons, so that might be a wash for a while. This might be a back burner project until the state opens up again. 

Keeping this thread alive, who wants to help with some erosion control at the lost ledges? I managed to get a little bit done this weekend but could probably use some help, lmk.

Spencer Moore wrote:

Keeping this thread alive, who wants to help with some erosion control at the lost ledges? 

Id be down to help out. Ill shoot you a message.

Also does anyone know if the wide crack halfway up the rock trail has been climbed? Is anyone going to take issue with climbing directly next to the hiking trail? It looks sweet and shockingly clean, Id love to get out there and climb it sometime.

So, the park doesn't want people cleaning rock on the rock trail, but hasn't banned climbing necessarily on the rock trail to my knowledge. I'd be down to mess around on it, but I don't have big gear for the top. OW is not my style so I would have to flounder on it! Gear on Chuck sandstone is expensive training weight if the rock is bad. I would be really cautious and make sure the thing is very dry, because it is friable when dry, and dangerously friable when wet. Even if it hasn't rained for a week, depending on the aspect of the rock, the insides (not the crack but like a few cm deep into the rock itself) can still retain water. 

There is a ton recently developed sport climbs (not moderate) with proper glue-in hardware on Chuckanut Sandstone. I'm hesitant to disclose much information about it as it was developed (not by me) incognito.

I'd be willing to show it to fellow climbers; but I'm not going to post anything about on a public forum. It's been a few years since I've been in contact with the developer; fwiw the developer was ok with others knowing about it but they didn't want anything published about it on social media. Also, it's been years since I've been to the crag. It very well may be common knowledge now or reclaimed by the forest due to lack of traffic. 

Here's a video of me climbing there years ago.

https://youtu.be/_MNTa4QHk4Y

Blake Wold wrote:

Here's a video of me climbing there years ago.

https://youtu.be/_MNTa4QHk4Y

Looks stout and short! I actually just got the pdf of the area yesterday and I am keen on trying it out! Driving to Erie from Bellingham, we looked east to that wall and wondered if anybody did anything with it, and it turns out someone did! 

Spencer, would you be willing to DM me a copy of said PDF? I used to have it on an old laptop that has long since died. If people start climbing there more I think the area has the potential to become Bham's premier crag. Let me know if you ever need a partner. The wife and I climb on the weekends out of Burlington. Also, don't sleep on Cumberland Crags (7 mile, Coal Crag, Iron Mt), a little further than Mt Erie but its the best climbing in Skagit IMO.

DMd. Falcon Punch looks sick!