Yosemite Bolts Destroyed

James Woods wrote:

Any communication with sean snyder turns into a confrontation with sean snyder. Not because someone like AV tries to communicate but because sean snyder is mentally ill and won't listen to anything that goes against his views.

It's common in a dispute to label the other side as "mentally ill" or "crazy", etc to explain their actions. I've seen it go both directions, both sides claiming the other is bi-polar or whatever. Without a medical evaluation from a medical professional it's inappropriate and counterproductive to make these claims, as people tend to label anyone they disagree with or don't like as "mentally ill", especially when people's only real interaction with a person is brief or entirely online.

The question is, what are Shawn's views specifically? What bolts can stay and which need to go? I agree with him to some extent, bolting is out of control, and I think the rebar ladder is a brilliant troll to show his point, I'm just not clear on what his point is. Maybe I can find out....

Tradibanwrote:

It's common in a dispute to label the other side as "mentally ill" or "crazy", etc to explain their actions. I've seen it go both directions, both sides claiming the other is bi-polar or whatever. Without a medical evaluation from a medical professional it's inappropriate and counterproductive to make these claims, as people tend to label anyone they disagree with or don't like as "mentally ill", especially when people's only real interaction with a person is brief or entirely online.

The question is, what are Shawn's views specifically? What bolts can stay and which need to go? I agree with him to some extent, bolting is out of control, and I think the rebar ladder is a brilliant troll to show his point, I'm just not clear on what his point is. Maybe I can find out....

Re: mental illness, I agree with Tradi. For perspective, some people would call all climbers crazy. Doesn't really matter what diagnostic criteria we each meet, we gotta deal with what we're delt.

From what I've seen of what Shawn has posted online, he is deeply upset at the impact caused by climbers in places we claim to love. This seems deeper than the common environmental gov-sponsored LNT bs. I empathize with this viewpoint very much. 

Shawn also has impeccable bolting/rebolting skills. Since he puts so much focus on bolting it makes sense that his biggest gripe would be around bolts. My interpretation is that it causes him distress to see new "century hardware" in an iconic location that wasn't installed as perfectly as he could have done it. In his mind, he should be the one to do jobs like LAS. I don't think the aesthetics of a glue in relate to its safety, but if bolting is your art, it makes sense that you might care.

Could we find a place for Shawn to exercise his exceptional talents in rebolting, and let him earn praise and respect? I get the sense he likes climbing, he just seems a bit nihilistic about the future of the sport. Maybe if we show him a brighter future, he'd like to be part of it.

*laughs in boulderer*

He admitted to the destruction of those bolts then deleted the post. He bares the responsibility of those actions.

If he has a legitimate reason for these actions, the burden of proof rests with him. Were the bolts unsafe? Is he not culpable for reasons of insanity? Those are for him to prove.

rocknice2wrote:

He admitted to the destruction of those bolts then deleted the post. He bares the responsibility of those actions.

If he has a legitimate reason for these actions, the burden of proof rests with him. Were the bolts unsafe? Is he not culpable for reasons of insanity? Those are for him to prove.

If we go whining to The Man about chopped bolts, I think that may have unintended consequences... Also the ranger statement upthread (or in the other thread) basically says that whether he did or not, that isn't enough of a crime to do anything.

What do we think of staging a daily protest in the meadow to get him trespassed from all national parks? Not directly confronting him, but simply physically show solidarity as a community to shut down his antics. In light of the past year, it seems like protesting would be one of our go to options. 

This is a range war. Yall need the services of a ronin.

Tradibanwrote:

More communication, less social media.

I'm going to guess he can reach out to the community easier than we can reach out to him. Bottom line he has had people endlessly listen.... what has changed though?

In the end, it appears, Shawn is gonna do Shawn and justify the actions regardless of any other viewpoint. If you, or anyone has a line to him, is there some kind of statement he would like to put out on this predicament?
Is there someway us as community can engage with him in good faith that he will listen and have constructive talks?

TBH, those seem like impossible things with this individual.... I for one would be grateful if you could be the one who helps initiate the peace we all seek. Or maybe you know someone.

To the dude saying he does a good job bolting and thats why he is so passionate.... he destroyed amazing hardware that needed no replacement and was done in good style. Least he could of done is do it right and patch the holes cause he "cares so much". Now its worse than previous by a large margin. Fuck, I'm incredibly passionate about bolting with good style and ethic, does that mean I get to choose what stays and what goes cause I'm passionate too?
He is acting as judge jury and executioner, how do you deal with that? 

Issues like this raise the need for a more effective way to reach conclusions/consensus rather than just one of thousands of threads that ramble on organically till it eventually fizzles out on semi related tangents and knives.  

How about a specific thread header of “Climbing Court” on MP.   A few app tweaks would facilitate it.  All climbers nationally (who are willing to have an MP acct) are the jury.  
To start, anyone can file a case to the “grand Jury” and it gets voted on to proceed to “trial” or is dismissed for lack of evidence or merit. Kind of a “pre filter” to eliminate frivolity.

if votes send it forward, at “Trial”, all sides post their “case” and “friends of the court” (AAC, AF, coalitions, manufacturers, etc) can file briefs if desired. Then after a certain time the case is closed and goes to “the jury” of all climbers with a thumbs up vote of who won. Either “side” Needs a super majority of votes or it’s a hung jury and no verdict is rendered.

Then, my favorite part, All verdicts are strictly enforced by a secret vigilante group.  

Mr Rogerswrote:

To the dude saying he does a good job bolting and thats why he is so passionate.... he destroyed amazing hardware that needed no replacement and was done in good style. Least he could of done is do it right and patch the holes cause he "cares so much". Now its worse than previous by a large margin. Fuck, I'm incredibly passionate about bolting with good style and ethic, does that mean I get to choose what stays and what goes cause I'm passionate too?
He is acting as judge jury and executioner, how do you deal with that? 

I completely agree. Whether you see this as an adversarial conflict or a wayward community member who needs help, the first step is to empathize with the person you don't understand. If we don't understand what's going on, we aren't in a position to make informed decisions to get life back on track.

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.

Tradibanwrote:

 and I think the rebar ladder is a brilliant troll to show his point

okay........

Zac Owenwrote:

okay........

It certainly is thinking a few moves ahead, he's not slow.

Tradiban wrote:

It certainly caught your attention, ya?

I mean yea it definitely caught my attention. Although I don't think it was even remotely productive. It didn't change anyone's minds about bolting and fucked up the rock far more than any bolts would. So I would definitely consider it pretty far off from brilliant. 

Zac Owenwrote:

I mean yea it definitely caught my attention. Although I don't think it was even remotely productive. It didn't change anyone's minds about bolting and fucked up the rock far more than any bolts would. So I would definitely consider it pretty far off from brilliant. 

A troll is the opposite of productive, cause that's not the point. It caught your attention as intended. 

The brilliant part is it's beating bolters at their own game, it's just bolting turned up to 11   

Tradibanwrote:

A troll is the opposite of productive, cause that's not the point. It caught your attention as intended. 

The brilliant part is it's beating bolters at their own game, it's just bolting turned up to 11   

Nah.  More like -11.   I’m no big fan of runaway bolting in general, but I’m even more against flagrant stupidity.  Shawn’s antics are just the sad expression of a damaged person who needs help.    Not brilliance or beating anyone.  

Tradibanwrote:

A troll is the opposite of productive, cause that's not the point. It caught your attention as intended.

This is so meta.

Danny Herrerawrote:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UjmLjpXaMcA&t=6s

Bobby Huttonwrote:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UjmLjpXaMcA&t=6s

The handcuffs are a great sign. I always carry those in my pack.

Bobby Huttonwrote:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UjmLjpXaMcA&t=6s

This is so fucking scary.