Is it okay to extend a belay the same as an extended rappel?

Not sure if this is the appropriate place to post this, but I couldn’t find any other related questions or obvious place to post about safety.

It’s common to use a sling to extend a rap device so it’s a bit farther from your body.  Is it okay to use the same technique to extend a belay device? Either for lead or top rope?

The reason I ask is because of an experience this weekend where the climb was right at the same length as our rope, and we wanted to eek a few extra feet out just in case.  

We decided against using it, since I’ve only seen the technique used in rapping, and we were worried that adding in a dynamic fall could make it a no go.  

Anyone have any insight into the safety of this set up?

I’ve seen a quickdraw-with-lockers recommended as a solution to issues with belaying with bulky clothing/parkas. Interested in hearing anyone’s experience actually doing it. Much more extension seems like it would make it a clumsy experience. 

I think in theory it could work but you would really want a stopper knot in the end of your rope in case of any type of slippage. It would likely be a pain if your device was an auto locker. It would be hard to reach in the event of a fall and your climber needed to be given slack. 

The difference in rappelling is that you don’t need to reach above the device to take in and feed out slack, and because the device isn’t always weighted it seems like it would flop around a lot. I wouldn’t want to try it, but if you do I’d keep the extension small and practice in a controlled environment first.

And no, I don’t think this would be a good solution to a rope too short for your climb. 

Em Coswrote:

The difference in rappelling is that you don’t need to reach above the device to take in and feed out slack, and because the device isn’t always weighted it seems like it would flop around a lot. I wouldn’t want to try it, but if you do I’d keep the extension small and practice in a controlled environment first.

And no, I don’t think this would be a good solution to a rope too short for your climb. 

Agreed. I feel like this would be a disaster. 

Thanks everyone for their thoughts. I’m glad we decided against using this approach!

M Appelquist wrote:

Wouldn’t a few pcs and a sling and locker placed a few feet above your original belay stance solve the problem?

So would buying a longer rope or doing a different climb and those both have way less potential to create an absolute clusterfuck.

This sounds like a bad idea. It will be harder to reach above the device, so you'll only be able to take in or feed out smaller amounts of rope at once. If the climber takes a fall, depending on the length you extended the belay device, the belay device could hit you in the face maybe.

I think a better solution to this is to extend the anchor of the climb using slings or a cordalette to get the few extra feet. Other solutions: use a longer rope, or do a shorter climb. It's usually not great to do a climb your rope might not reach.

You really want all that junk hitting you in the face?

As most said, not a recommended solution.  Adding potential complications and issues to merely gain about a foot.  

1. were you top roping or lead climbing and lowering?  Either way, both of you should tie in or as said, at least have stopper knots to avoid loss of rope 
2. Was your “short” rope length determined by unweighted free hanging rope, stretched rope with climber (you’ll gain about 10% length) or by beta or guidebook info?  — best to both tie in then. Then you can both readily climb if needed, and rope can’t slip past you.  Good habit for eventual multi pitch climbing.  
   
   

Orrrr, as suggested, best bet if too much F’ing is required, wait till you have proper gear for the climb and climb something else.  

like others have pointed out - "not if you value your teeth".

Jamila W wrote:

I have seen guides do this.

This is typically used for ice climbing when an ABD (i.e. grigri) is not a great choice. The tube is connected to the belay loop with a locker draw. A third locker is used to attach the belay device to the belay loop in plaquette mode. Plaquette mode is used for belaying. When the climber is ready to lower, simply unclip the third locker and then lower with the extended belay device. Since it's only used in an extended fashion while lowering, it's akin to an extended rappel in that there's no need to pull rope into the device and the tension in the system prevents it from hitting you in the face (and a locker draw is relatively short, which also helps). With the advent of geometry based ABDs (jul, pilot, etc.) there's less need for this system as these other tools serve that purpose now.

Jim Tittwrote:

You really want all that junk hitting you in the face?

And in your junk. Back to the face and back again. 

Greg Dwrote:

And in your junk. Back to the face and back again. 

Happens to me without the belay device.  Forces me to be smoooooth.