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Advice when getting pumped at the top of gym 5.11s
John Reevewrote: That's a fair challenge. The diet / exercise / sleep combo actually determines weight change rather than weight itself, so it would be more accurate to say "if you have been consistently following healthy diet / exercise / sleep patterns then you weigh what you are supposed to weigh." If in the past you have become under or overweight because of inury, physical / mental health problems, or just life circumstances then you may have to make an adjustment to return to your prior stable weight. My point was more to decide what you "should weigh" based on what you weigh when you're healthy and reasonably fit, not a chart of general population BMI guidelines or (especially) the notion that you weigh too much because you're not following the latest eating trend. Those come and go and even completely reverse themselves with some regularity, which is another clue that the experimental designs driving them are less than rigorous. |
William Kwrote: I certainly agree that there are some really dumb eating trends, and the question of what makes a healthy human diet is far from a solved issue. Just for context, have you ever lost a significant amount of weight and/or been able to make a long-term, positive change to your diet and or physiology? I don't think that information diminishes your point either way, but I feel like it would help me contextualize what you're writing. |
John Reevewrote: I have never gotten really heavy, no. I have spent a good bit of time at about 15 lb heavier than my current weight. Part of that time was after I blew out my ACL but the much bigger percent of that time was spent on various attempts to "put some muscle on" my relatively narrow frame. It took me years to just accept that I feel best and perform best at a lanky 6' 165 and if that doesn't look quite the way I'd have picked given a free drop, well, so be it. I have gotten used to it and grown happy with it, but it took a good bit of time. I eat better than I used to but that's mostly because I got married to a wonderful cook who makes vegetarian meals 3-4x week, so I can't claim too much credit for that one :) |
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Climb easier routes but climb them slower. Pause for 5-10 seconds before each next move. Spend less time looking for how to get to the top and more time on these easier routes looking for how to catch a rest based upon the features of where you are on the route such as a stem or kneebar to rest your arms. Learn to rest for longer than you think you need to. |
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You are not overweight, but on the heavy side if you want to push grades. I'm 6'1" also, but 155lbs. I doubt I could get up a 5.11 carrying 45 more lbs (or even 20 more). So yeah, what others said about trimming down would probably help a lot. You can be on the heavier side for power (ie, bouldering) but for endurance you probably want to trim down. Beyond that, doing laps on 5.10's was suggested and I think that's great for endurance. Or just ARCing on a system board. I mostly focus on power and power-endurance and hope that my endurance will naturally improve through lots of climbing. That works at places like the Red but not so well here in the front range where most outdoor climbs aren't that enduro. But I hate ARCing. :) You're still new to the sport... just keep climbing and don't get injured! |
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You’re not too old for anything. Your weight does matter, it’s just physics. Your carrying that load up the route. Assuming you can do all the moves and you are just getting pumped... - Make sure you are properly warming up. I’m always surprised how many people don’t do this or thing swinging their arms around a few times and stretching is good enough. Google proper climbing warm up (Mani the Monkey) - Do warm up climbs. This can be laps on a low grade (10a) or 3-4 different routes. Take a break, then gradually work up to an 11. *If you jump on an 11 too early you will flash pump - Be strategic in your route selection. Read the route and find the crux and rests. Technical slabby, juggy roof, sustained overhang will all require different approaches. - Take a bunch of deep breaths before you start, this will get the oxygen going in your blood. - Try to shake out as you’re climbing and when you get to your rest to shake out, deep breaths and look down at your arm while you shake out. This will relax your arm that’s holding on. Swap arms. Also people don’t shake out long enough. Stay there as long as you need. Ideally you should do this right before you move into the last section or crux. (Adam Ondra actually rests more than he climbs!! Think about that). - Bonus: if you know there’s a shitty crimp for your right hand after the rest, give your right hand more shake out time. Happy sending |
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I got into climbing just before my 30th birthday; that was 6 years ago so younger than you when you started but older than alot of people in this community. Like you, I’m competitive with my own goals and like to push myself. I’m also somewhat bigger than the prototypical climber (but not confident enough to list my height and weight on MP!). Especially early on I used to get reallly demoralized by crash dieting and comparing myself to other people, especially fitter younger climbers, to the point where I almost quit climbing a few years ago. To keep it fun for myself and stick with it, I had to stop focusing on other people and how they climbed and focus on the things that got me psyched and the progress I was making on my own terms. Pretty much had to ‘Marie Kondo‘ my climbing training; if it didn’t spark psych I didn’t focus on it. You’re definitely not to old or too big to crush some serious shit as a climber, you’re just going to have to train more thoughtfully to avoid injury. My first thought is if you’re posting this in August 2020, my guess is you’re gym opened back up after lockdown fairly recently. The component of my climbing that sucked the most when my gym opened back up was my endurance because I could train strength and finger strength out of the gym but endurance is really hard to train if you don’t have a wall. Take heart, It came back quickly! I don’t subscribe to the idea of doing laps on easy-moderate routes, if you’re trying to avoid getting pumped out on 5.11 crimps, 5.10b moves aren’t going to get you there. Find a climb that’s just below your TR max and try to string together as many moves as you can. Every time you go to the gym, get back on that route and see if you can make more progress. Every time you have a good rest- something where your legs are doing a lot of the work or you have a big hand hold to rest on, use it- camp out and take a hand off and shake it out for at least 10 seconds. If your gym has a circuit wall, try that, those things are awesome for building endurance. Try leading. For advice from professionals, check out one of the awesome training podcasts like power company or training beta. Weight. This is a hard one. I’m not where I’d like to be with my weight as a climber. However, as a human being with a hard ass full time job and a climbing addiction, I feel like my ice cream/margarita/climbing habits are in a pretty good balance for overall life happiness. I’m currently a stable 10 pounds down from where I was 2 years ago (even with quarantine!) and that’s come as a result of progressively making a lot of little sustainable changes instead of changing my whole diet at once. First it was cutting down the number of days I drank alcohol, then adding salad dinners twice a week, then adding fish dinners more often (I have an awesome salmon recipe), the cutting down the number of times we ordered takeout or went out to dinner. My husband and I still eat garbage sometimes, but not as often. Adjusting one thing at a time and getting used to it was easier to maintain for me, although some people find making a big change at once is easier. You may want to experiment with both approaches and see what works best for you. Finally, if you keep beating yourself up over your grades or your size, you’re may start to hate climbing. I think the crux of building a long term climbing habit/program is finding the balance between pushing yourself as hard as you can with about beating yourself up too much. Good luck! |
Elizabeth Townsendwrote: |
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Oh, and maybe try adding a few weight exercises into your training regimen- pushups, pull-ups, squats, abs should do it. More muscle burns more calories and gives you a lot more power and body control! |
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Back in 2019 when I could climb in the gym my buddy and I would play a game where we had to pump out on every route we climbed. Climb something (a few grades below your limit) that's at least vertical, focusing on footwork and technique, lower ASAP, and do it again. Repeat until you peel. If your partner is doing the same thing then you'll get a nice long rest as well, and they won't be annoyed when you run 3-4 laps in a row. Zero science backing this up, but I think it helped :) it's also more fun than hangboarding or climbing slowly |
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I didn't read all comments so some of this may have been said already. When I hit a plateau it was obvious that Endurance seemed to be the issue aside from technique, efficiency, and many other factors, BUT Endurance vs Pump was an immediate thing to focus on. So, I began running laps on climbs that were hard but wired - routes that you "think" you can do once, but in reality you can do 2-3-4 times in a row. This is important to realize. There are variations on this theme of running laps. 1. Climb to the top and lower. Immediately climb again. Repeat until true failure. Gauge how many laps you make and measure progress. Progression? I found my way to cheat this and immediately helped with the taller harder routes I found hard to finish without hanging once or twice. 2. Climb to the top and rest and commit to the rest. Change your stance and swap arms until you are actually rested. Don't rest 15-30 seconds and then come down. Get good at resting on these routes until you are nearly fully rested and feel like you can stay there forever. If you have to downclimb to a better stance do it. I found for myself at least, that "resting" I was not actually resting but pausing. After doing this top-out rest, I could basically run 2-3x more laps on the same route AND this paid dividends on new or awkward climbs when I found a nice stance, I would rest thoroughly and then continue the climb eliminating any hangs or reducing them greatly. 3. The next variation I have started is Climb - Rest thoroughly - Downclimb - Cimb - Rest thoroughly - Repeat until true failure. This is a shorter cycle and probably adds Technique and actual physical endurance since you will reach failure. At some point the combination of good resting and the psychology of being patient set in where I know how long to rest to make another lap. I apologize if this 3 step variation to running laps seems long winded but it sure has helped my "endurance" in reality but also another type of endurance which I did not have access to because I was not truly resting on routes. Another simple but fun variation which makes you realize you're not always comfortable on the wall is to find an empty space on vertical with good holds or a slab wall with mixed holds and just attempt to stay up there Moving for as long as you can. This can be done right off the ground. If you truly get close to failure look for a rest spot and get there. Rest however long it takes and then keep going. At some point you get truly comfortable. My wife had to run to the nearest town while at the crag last weekend and I did this same exercise staying on the rock in a fist crack going from the first holds to about 12' up and reversing the moves and getting to stances. She took forever to get back! I didn't feel exhausted at all but the next day a lot of weird muscles I don't normally feel sore in were definitely getting a workout they needed. |
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Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. I am definitely improving. And it's getting cool enough that I can go back outside now too! The South sucks in summer for climbing. |
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I would read Eric Horst's Training for Climbing. I love exercise physiology, and there were some amazing takeaways for me. Unless you are purely a boulderer, you should definitely have lots of aerobic climbing training in your routine. Submaximal, consistent climbing sessions at a 5 or 6 out of 10 on the intensity scale where you do 30-45 minutes of total climbing did absolutely amazing things for my climbing strength. Your body will build extra capillaries in your forearms and add mitochondria to your muscle cells. If you want to stop pumping out up high, read his book, do a 4 week block of aerobic climbing training as he recommends, then try the same climbs after a week or so of high intensity stuff. You will be AMAZED. Read the book. My two sentence summary is crap |
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54 and climbing the best I ever have in 30 yrs. I went from 240 to 200 in a few years of just trying to eat better. Even with good technique its tiring to pull that hard |
Jarrod Webbwrote: Amen. I went from 215 a year ago and just under 200 now. Working on getting to 185 but it’s getting harder. |
Mark Bwrote: Oh for sure. Fitness improvement is quadratic, not linear - the first 10% better is 10% more work. To get 10% better from there is 100% more work (2x). To get 10% better from THERE is 1000% more work (10x). The key is when you get to the point where you say, “eh, f that” - and we almost all get there - that you stick where you are, not slip back. |
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When you're getting pumped it means you're climbing too slow. Do some pacing drills. Climb the same route slow, then fast. Make the pace of each section of a route part of the beta. |
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Take a week off and you’ll probably be able to do it when you return to the gym. 1.5 hours 4 days a week is a lot. You’re going to end up injuring yourself. Also make sure to workout antagonist muscles or you’ll develop a nasty imbalance |
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Update: I originally looked for advice on getting to the top of 5.11s in the climbing gym. (My problem was getting pumped at the top.) I am doing much better, projecting 5.11c/d now. I attribute it to hangboard training, a steady diet of antagonist exercises, an additional 10 pounds of weight loss, better pump management and technique, and taking a few lessons with the climbing coach. I'm in the best shape of my life. Thanks! |
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Congrats, Mark! That's great progress. |
