Fatal rappel in Calenques (France)

(Article is in French, and related article here.)

An experienced French climber died rappelling when his 2 ropes, possibly joined by a flat figure eight which apparently capsized until coming undone. Prussic & rap devices found still on the ropes. Watch them knots, and favor fishermen/overhands for joining ropes. And in all cases, dress them well.

Didn't know the climber, but sorry for the loss to all involved.

That's the knot that killed a well-known US climber several years back (R. Granstaff IIRC).

Gunkiemikewrote:

That's the knot that killed a well-known US climber several years back (R. Granstaff IIRC).

I don't think so Mike.  Randy was killed with some kind of fancy setup that was supposed to allow joined rappel ropes to separate and fall free of the anchor, leaving nothing behind.  Unfortunately, it released as soon as he weighted it.  I believe this, or something similar, is the method he used: rope-work-101.wikidot.com/r…

But a British climber was killed in 2002 rappelling Space Shot in Zion, when an offset Figure 8 came undone.

The offset figure 8 has been rejected as unsafe by US climbers after tests by Moyers in 1999, and there have been at least three accidents in which this knot came undone since then.  But European climbers have not reached the same conclusions and you can find the offset-8 on various climbing websites with no warnings.  Moreover, pull tests by ENSA do not confirm that the offset 8 is any worse than the now-standard offset overhand or "EDK," so the situation is a bit murky. Here is the relevant section of their video. youtu.be/9_sGyjr8IKo?t=225

rgoldwrote:

But a British climber was killed in 2002 rappelling Space Shot in Zion, when an offset Figure 8 came undone.

As I recall that accident opened up the conversation about use of the EDK (or whatever neutal PC term we have for it these days), since both the EDK and the lethal fig8 are "flat" knots? Anyway, it definitely led to the vindication of the EDK.

Franck Veewrote:

(Article is in French, and related article here.)

possibly joined by a flat figure eight which apparently capsized until coming

How is this even a story?!?

Pure speculation since no one is putting forth video, photos, or evidence about which knot was used and what happened to the knot. Irresponsible reporting.

Frank sums up the articles well, the second one does say that a flat figure 8 was taught as a correct method to join rappel ropes together in France in the past. It goes on to explain that multiple failures of that configuration lead to that knot becoming known as an EDK in america. But that it is only dangerous in the figure 8 configuration and not as a simple over hand (what we all think of as an EDK). The article goes on to recommend that you connect rappel ropes with a simple flat overhand. Although nowhere does it say what knot was used and we can only speculate, it does say the knot failed. Based on the historical use of that knot in that part of the world and known instances of it failing in a similar way it’s not a huge leap to think it may have been responsible. We’ll never know for sure. Regardless it’s a good reminder to connect your rappel ropes in a safe way. 

Russ Keane wrote:

The video embedded into that "rope 101" link is pretty wild....  A guy showing you rather quickly how to rig this thing... wow.... Don't fuck this up!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQimVEfkjx0&feature=emb_rel_end

I'm not understanding how this video applies. It looks like he's showing how to tie a figure8  for harness and anchor points. 

Sorry, here's the correct link to the video about rigging a slip-hitch rappel:

https://youtu.be/ik2WVIaSPq4

That video is absolutely insane. I can't believe anyone would use that. Also, how does the stopper knot just fly open like that? Is it because it no longer has anything it's wrapped around, and therefore too loose?

This distinction 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/northeastalpinestart.com/2016/09/27/one-of-these-knots-can-kill-you/amp/

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

That video is absolutely insane. I can't believe anyone would use that. Also, how does the stopper knot just fly open like that? Is it because it no longer has anything it's wrapped around, and therefore too loose?

Damn, that is some knot!
This definitely makes fiddle stick ( https://www.canyoneeringusa.com/techtips/fiddlestick ) look bomber!

rgoldwrote:

The offset figure 8 has been rejected as unsafe by US climbers after tests by Moyers in 1999, and there have been at least three accidents in which this knot came undone since then.  But European climbers have not reached the same conclusions and you can find the offset-8 on various climbing websites with no warnings.  Moreover, pull tests by ENSA do not confirm that the offset 8 is any worse than the now-standard offset overhand or "EDK," so the situation is a bit murky. 

I'm guessing the issue might be the following. This is based on my only very non-scientific tests abseiling from a tree in the garden. The fig8 version is strong, if tied very neatly and all strands pulled to close the knot down. If this is not done, then it can roll and roll and roll and eats a lot of rope with each roll. I could not get this to happen with a poorly dressed overhand version. I could get it to roll once, then it set hard. Hence I can see a lab test with the fig8 tied neatly would seem okay, but out in the real world it seems a poor thing to teach, and being the overhand version is much more robust against users not doing it perfectly, a stupid thing to teach.

Heart out to the friends and relatives.