Carbon vs Aluminum

I went back. Immediately. 

I'm a big fan of anything carbon fiber.  Why? Because batman.

But in all seriousness, I don't think carbon vs non-carbon is as big of a factor compared to overall tool ergonomics.  And then if they happen to be carbon, then all the better. I do think that if you are going to really put your tools through a beating, carbon wrapped is possibly an inferior choice.  I really like my North Machine Carbons, but the carbon wrap is damaged in a few places.

If there was a carbon fiber Nomic, I’d buy it. Or put a Nomic handle and geometry on a Cobra. Or carbon X-dream.  
Shit would be spendy, and probably not economically viable from the company’s perspective, but c’mon, we need something new and exciting in the axe realm. I haven’t been able to justify a new purchase in years!
BD could be closest if they offered a carbon version Fuel - which essentially would be both of the first two options above.  Make it limited edition in black and silver at $900 a pair. 

http://www.eliteclimb.com/products/

Somebody buy all of these and tell us what they think!

Mark Pilate wrote:

If there was a carbon fiber Nomic, I’d buy it. Or put a Nomic handle and geometry on a Cobra. Or carbon X-dream.  
Shit would be spendy, and probably not economically viable from the company’s perspective, but c’mon, we need something new and exciting in the axe realm. I haven’t been able to justify a new purchase in years!
BD could be closest if they offered a carbon version Fuel - which essentially would be both of the first two options above.  Make it limited edition in black and silver at $900 a pair. 

hahaha makes sense though, given the shape of the aluminum fuel and carbon cobra, those ridges or whatever

Mark Pilate wrote:

If there was a carbon fiber Nomic, I’d buy it. Or put a Nomic handle and geometry on a Cobra. Or carbon X-dream.  
Shit would be spendy, and probably not economically viable from the company’s perspective, but c’mon, we need something new and exciting in the axe realm. I haven’t been able to justify a new purchase in years!
BD could be closest if they offered a carbon version Fuel - which essentially would be both of the first two options above.  Make it limited edition in black and silver at $900 a pair. 

Just opining how a carbon tool would work on a mixed route, would contact with rock be detrimental, lead to splitting? I have only ever used Venom and X-All Mountains...

Buck Rio wrote:

Just opining how a carbon tool would work on a mixed route, would contact with rock be detrimental, lead to splitting? I have only ever used Venom and X-All Mountains...

I have not seen it, but supposedly there was a video floating around of someone at Black Diamond wailing on a concrete curb with a cobra shaft and it took a helluva beating before they finally broke it.

Both older and current Cobras hold up pretty well.  Not much different that the same surface scarring you’d get on aluminum.  Obviously you’re not swinging them into rock and you are being pretty “gentle” and refined in your movements, so I’d say in general,  a Carbon mixed tool isn’t any less robust than an aluminum.   Plus it’s all the rage to put tape or other stuff over the shafts.  

Based on earlier threads on this topic,  I’ma gonna mix up a rainbow swirl batch of various colored PlastiDips and coat a section of my axe shaft with this.  

Any others you see like that next ice season are copycats, lol.  

I’ve had both carbon and aluminium tools for many (20!) years. As someone else said, I think the tool design makes a bigger difference than the materials. I far prefer carbon in the mountains but I have zero qualms about beating the shit out of my carbon tools (currently North machines) on thrutchy mixed routes. I would have purchased dark machines but I didn’t like the bare handle. 

I have a pair of aspeeds that have see 100s of pitches of abusive double digit mixed and being dropped countless times and they keep ticking and show no signs of stopping anytime soon. As a bonus on mixed routes the stiffness of carbon is incredibly confidence inspiring.

So as a follow up: North Machine aluminum vs North Machine carbon? All alu version is a bit heavier, a bit cheaper. Would it be considered more durable? Does anyone have issues with Carbon north machine torquing in cracks and whatnot? For some reason—my mind has this perception that carbon ought to be “babied” and though its totally irrational—it persists. Would I be an idiot to get the all aluminum vs the carbon wrapped?

DeLa Cruce wrote:

So as a follow up: North Machine aluminum vs North Machine carbon? All alu version is a bit heavier, a bit cheaper. Would it be considered more durable? Does anyone have issues with Carbon north machine torquing in cracks and whatnot? For some reason—my mind has this perception that carbon ought to be “babied” and though its totally irrational—it persists. Would I be an idiot to get the all aluminum vs the carbon wrapped?

Babied? Watch some videos of Formula 1 crashes; often the only thing intact is the C-fiber body.

I smash the fuck out of my north machine carbons with zero worries. I do cover them in tape for better grip but I have zero worries about torquing them in cracks etc… 

I have a few holes smashed through the CF in my NMs from direct impact onto the shafts.  For example, I hammered in one of my tools at some point to make a deadman.  No big surprise, there was some broken CF.  NBD though, I just taped over them.

I started using the Chouinard blue shaft tools in the early 80s. They were a composite of aluminum and fiberglass. The piolets have held up great. I still use mine. But after ~15 years the Zeros and Northwalls had a slight bend from hitting the ice. In some ways they were the original but unintentional curve shaft tools. 

Some trivia - in mid 1980s while working in aerospace and knowing some of the folks at Chouinard I got a hold of some sample shafts as prototypes for support struts for satellite fuel tanks. We wanted to see if they could be a low cost solution to the beryllium struts in use at the time. It did not work out but it was fun in the prospect of Chouinard becoming an aerospace supplier.

Graham Johnson wrote:

I smash the fuck out of my north machine carbons with zero worries. I do cover them in tape for better grip but I have zero worries about torquing them in cracks etc… 

”smash the fuck” ok, i’ve never seen someone out it like that. Now were speaking the same language