Thoughts on boostic 2021?

Doug Hutchinson wrote:

Back to Boostic, what is largest anyone has sized up and still felt they were not sloppy?

I wear a 42 for street/running shoes in Scarpa and Sportiva. I can wear 40.5 TC Pros for long routes if taking them off at belays. I wear a size 44 Boostic for any roped climbing and I've never felt them "roll" off of an edge like you feel in other shoes (like TCs). 

This is all very sad to hear because the Boostic is a great choice for "performance" long granite climbing, especially for those that suffer from the Achilles bursitis that the P3 platform induces (TC Pro, etc.). The drastic Boostic upsizing allows one's heel to not be smashed against the back of the shoe, but the slight downturn and stiffness more than compensates to provide excellent edging performance (geez, sounds like an ad). If you're wondering why there are no 44 or 43.5 Boostics left in the FS section of mountain project, it's that I'm looking for a hedge against inflation [this does not constitute financial advice] ;) Hopefully Boostics don't go the way of the silent partner. Maybe those Scarpa athletes can lobby for the old design to stay.

+1 to everything Michal says on this matter. He knows Boostics as well as anyone.

Dylan Cousins wrote:

+1 to everything Michal says on this matter. He knows Boostics as well as anyone.

+1 again. Actually this whole thread gives me hope that there are people out there that know what a good, stiff climbing shoe is all about, unlike those crazy people that think a TC Pro edges really great, ha.

@michalm for the good of the order, please don't go and have offline conversations with Jon about other shoes like the Acopas, this is life or death kind of intel, that we all need to know about.

michalm wrote:

Jakob, here are a few thoughts regarding your experience. I think Heinz and Nathan had similar thoughts as you, but many granite and sandstone wall junkies such as the people on this thread feel differently.

1. There are many moderately stiff, somewhat sensitive shoes on the market already. The Boostic was one of the lone holdouts of a truly stiff shoe, and the only very stiff shoe that is so highly asymmetrical (allowing the big toe to be oriented straight forward rather than bending in toward the 2nd toe). Believe it or not, a lot of us are happy to trade sensitivity for stiffness and support for climbing long routes. (See Point 2)

2. Are you describing your sizing for single pitch climbing? Many people on this thread use Boostics in a more generous size to climb long technical granite and sandstone walls. I have worn Boostics sized like this for 15hrs of climbing (taking them off at belays) and they are the only shoes that don't cause me intense bursitis at the base of the Achilles tendon for long routes. The TC pro when sized to perform similarly to the Boostic is much less comfortable for me and causes Achilles tendon bursitis. It turns out that sizing to street shoe size or larger allows the Boostic to be comfortable even with many sustained pitches on the feet and the foot swelling that occurs with long routes. Also, the shoe jams cracks surprisingly well when sized with the toes only gently bent.

3. You might have a narrow foot, or at least narrow or more tapered in the small toe/5th metatarsal area compared to some of us. Some of my friends with a narrow foot can downsize the shoe as much as you describe, and I imagine that was the intention of the design. I find I get plenty of power in the big toe at only 1/2 size down from street shoe. I could probably go down another 1/2 size, but with less comfort due to 5th metatarsal constriction, and not significantly better performance.

Thank you for your detailed response.

That makes a lot of sense and I see a few points different now. While I still think the new model could be a slight improvement for my application as a stiffer sportclimbing edging shoe I totally see why people are disappointed they might loose their loved niche shoe.

I think I have feet on the narrow side but not super narrow. I always tend to size down quite a bit in rock shoes compared to others so maybe it does have something to do with my foot shape. The Boostics fit my foot very well  which also helps as I don't have clear pressure points in them. In La Sportiva even 3.5 sizes down from my street shoe size is quite comfortable for sport climbing and a "performance fit" is more like -4.0.

When you are referring to wall climbing. Do you mean multipitch freeclimbing in the length of maybe 5-10 pitches and relatively difficult or more like longer easier alpine/bigwall style climbing with maybe even some aid?

I am planning a trip to Patagonia next year (my first) and will try to do a lot more granite climbing this year as preparation.  Now I am thinking maybe I should actually get an even bigger pair of the old Boostics. My 42.5 pair is surprisingly comfy for the performance but not quite all day comfort. 43 should probably be good as I always prefer a bit more performance over true comfort in rock shoes and can't stand sliding around in them. 

My street shoe size is 44 and sometimes even 44.5 in running shoes but I wear 43.5 Scarpa Boots.

Jakob, I like Boostics sized up for climbing 5.12 all day. They can be comfortable for 10-15 pitches sized appropriately. When things get harder than that, I like my street shoe sized Boostics for more toe power and support on the micro foot holds. I always pop my heel off at belays. Sized up a full size, I can climb more moderate routes or very long routes without taking my shoes off at belays. However, I could also use my $50 evolv approach shoes for that application. ;) 

michalm wrote:

Jakob, here are a few thoughts regarding your experience. I think Heinz and Nathan had similar thoughts as you, but many granite and sandstone wall junkies such as the people on this thread feel differently.

1. There are many moderately stiff, somewhat sensitive shoes on the market already. The Boostic was one of the lone holdouts of a truly stiff shoe, and the only very stiff shoe that is so highly asymmetrical (allowing the big toe to be oriented straight forward rather than bending in toward the 2nd toe). Believe it or not, a lot of us are happy to trade sensitivity for stiffness and support for climbing long routes. (See Point 2)

2. Are you describing your sizing for single pitch climbing? Many people on this thread use Boostics in a more generous size to climb long technical granite and sandstone walls. I have worn Boostics sized like this for 15hrs of climbing (taking them off at belays) and they are the only shoes that don't cause me intense bursitis at the base of the Achilles tendon for long routes. The TC pro when sized to perform similarly to the Boostic is much less comfortable for me and causes Achilles tendon bursitis. It turns out that sizing to street shoe size or larger allows the Boostic to be comfortable even with many sustained pitches on the feet and the foot swelling that occurs with long routes. Also, the shoe jams cracks surprisingly well when sized with the toes only gently bent.

3. You might have a narrow foot, or at least narrow or more tapered in the small toe/5th metatarsal area compared to some of us. Some of my friends with a narrow foot can downsize the shoe as much as you describe, and I imagine that was the intention of the design. I find I get plenty of power in the big toe at only 1/2 size down from street shoe. I could probably go down another 1/2 size, but with less comfort due to 5th metatarsal constriction, and not significantly better performance.

Any thoughts on the shoe for long toed folks? I kind of lean towards shoes like the Instinct that are more symmetric for an aggressive shoe because my 2nd/3rd/4th toe are all very comparable length to my big toe. Any long toe folks find success in a nice stiff shoe? I think when I've tried the TC Pro/Aspect they've felt okay, but the description of the boostic seems a bit scary to my sensitive toesies.

Sounds like I have your problem - Fred Flintstone feet. I don't have a particularly wide foot but it is very squared off in the toes. I have mortons toe, 3rd toe longer than big toe too and 4th almost the same length

The old boostic was a game changer for me. It fits me better than an instinct. I can size it so my big toe is flat AND straight with zero dead space in front of the toe and climb 5.12 edging. I have never been able to get that fit and performance with any other shoe. Yes my other toes are curled but there is enough volume in the toe box that this is not a problem. That area of the shoe actually breaks in quite nicely too.

My previous face climbing shoe was a downsized tc pro and I will not go back to subjecting my feet to that torture as long as my stockpile of boostics lasts.

Just FYI, the new Evolv Geshido has a similar shape as the Boostic, but that is about the end of the similarities. It is far too soft and unsupportive to edge well, and really does a number on the Achilles when the toe turns up when loaded. Shoes with traditional slingshot rands just don't work as well as the Boostic, and shoes that aren't very stiff with slingshot rands are especially painful.

 I've gotten my hands on two pairs of the new Boostic (41 & 40.5) and a brand new pair of the og Boostic (41), so I thought I'd share some thoughts for this thread...

Disclaimers: I'm not a longtime Boostic user and I haven't climbed in the shoes. At this point, I'm exclusively a Sportiva user (though I did boulder in the Instinct VS for a season years ago). I wear a 42.5 sneaker and my Sportiva climbing shoe size is 39 (+/- .5 depending on model and utility). These are just some subjective impressions based on wearing the shoes a bunch in my house. Edit to add: I'm around 41.5/42 on a Brannock.

I decided to get some Boostics because I wanted a shoe for small, positive footholds on vert or just over/under type climbing, and I had a friend tell me that the Boostics felt like cheating on this sort of terrain. I initially got the '21 Boostic in size 41. When they arrived my two immediate impressions upon putting them on were "this is the nicest feeling shoe I've ever put on" and "these are not that stiff". The materials they use inside the shoe are smooth and soft feeling. Really nice. The impression of comfort is also due to the width and the lack of heel tension, both very distinct coming from Sportiva. However, I expected these to be stiff, and out of the box they felt comparable to almost any modern sport-oriented shoe in terms of stiffness (Solution, etc). When I cranked the straps down into 'action mode' (tight at the ankle, tight and pulled down low on the bottom strap) the stiffness came through, but I still wouldn't have described them as stiff. Supportive, yes. My thought was that the new Boostic in this size would be awesome for me on Red Rock multipitch, where I tend to want something softer than a TC Pro but still supportive, or as a great all-arounder. Did not feel like a specialty shoe for small footholds though.

I decided I needed to compare this to the og Boostic and that I wanted to also try the new model a half size smaller because this shoe was not really what I was expecting. 

The og Boostic in 41 was more in line with what I was expecting. I put it on and it felt stiff right away. Not uncomfortable, but the materials are definitely not as soft as the new model, and there were more pressure points, particulary on the outside of the foot where the lower strap is tensioned. Fitwise, they felt the same as the new model; my toes were crunched the same amount and the heel tension felt the same. Same tiny bit of air (for me) at the bottom of the heel. Strapped down tight, these things feel rigid and far less sensitive. I would not want to climb a slab in these ones out of the box (the new model would work for that). Interestingly, the support through the midfoot did not feel any different, the stiffness/rigidity is coming from the thicker upper materials and especially the fact that the og has a 4mm edge outsole, whereas the new one is 3.5mm. 

The new model in 40.5. For my purposes, this one felt like the winner. The extra compression made it feel more or less as stiff as the old model end to end, and it had the nice silky feeling to it. It is definitely not all day comfy though, and compared to the other two, the rand bulges over the outsole a little bit from my big toe and at the widest part of my foot. An ideal 'modern stiff' sport climbing shoe, I think.

Final takeaways. In spite of the 40.5 in the new model feeling great, I will be keeping the og model because it is the most unique in today's market. Like Michal said in response to Jacob, there are many mid-stiff, all around sport performance shoes out there, and for this I'm happy with my Solutions/Miura VS. If you have been using the Boostic as a supportive sport climbing shoe though because it fits you best, I don't think you should be wailing or worrying about stockpiling the old model; the new one in a half-size down seems like an improvement for this purpose. However, for those of you using it sized up for big routes (as many folks on this thread seem to be), I'd say that you will not be too psyched on the changes. The softer, thinner upper materials and the .5mm thinner outsole have produced a noticeably softer shoe that reduces the Boostic's utility as a sized up multipitch edger. The midsole has not been changed (unless Scarpa is lying), so perhaps a resole with 4mm edge would get the new one feeling more like the old one, but overall it's a different feeling shoe. I think it'd be great for Red Rock type sandstone face climbing that involves a lot of smearing, rand torquing, and rounded edges, but for granite it would not be my choice at all.

Hope this way too long, mildly informed review helps some of you, and if anyone wants to buy a pair of the new model in size 41, hit me up...

Happy Climbing!

Xan

X C wrote:

 I've gotten my hands on two pairs of the new Boostic (41 & 40.5) and a brand new pair of the og Boostic (41), so I thought I'd share some thoughts for this thread...

[..]

Thanks for your input. That confirms exactly how I was feeling. I actually decided to pull the trigger on the last pair of OG Boostics in 43 that I could find online and will be getting a downsized new Boostic as soon as my current small Boostic wears out (or more likely when I can find a good deal online...)

X C wrote:

 I've gotten my hands on two pairs of the new Boostic (41 & 40.5) and a brand new pair of the og Boostic (41), so I thought I'd share some thoughts for this thread...

Legend Xan!

If you had to pick a La Sportiva model most similar to the OG Boostic, what would it be? The Otakis?

Ys Brand wrote:

If you had to pick a La Sportiva model most similar to the OG Boostic, what would it be? The Otakis?

YOOO! Yeah, either the Otaki or the Katana Lace. Closure aside, the two are fairly close. The Otaki has a stiffer feeling heel but the Katana has the full sole, so to me they feel the same in terms of support. 

X C wrote:

YOOO! Yeah, either the Otaki or the Katana Lace. Closure aside, the two are fairly close. The Otaki has a stiffer feeling heel but the Katana has the full sole, so to me they feel the same in terms of support. 

Might be just me but I also find the Otaki more comfortable than the Katana due to the wideness of the toebox. Both of the tensioning systems can be a bit painful on the Achilles for me, though.

X C wrote:

YOOO! Yeah, either the Otaki or the Katana Lace. Closure aside, the two are fairly close. The Otaki has a stiffer feeling heel but the Katana has the full sole, so to me they feel the same in terms of support. 

Nice one man, thanks! You're the shoe guru.

In a humorous twist of norms, Bentgate is selling the OG Boostic at full price (decent size run available) and the 2021 Boostic at 25% off, too long URL for the OG one:

https://www.bentgate.com/scarpa-boostic-rock-climbing-shoe.html?source=googlebase&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwLKFBhDPARIsAPzPi-KiB0SsrNfF7ZyfvEulqtmyOFEVWkIwrgNL5xyammOUwLOr7Iu07fEaAg8QEALw_wcB

Curious if anyone has put more time in the new one?

Pretty sure that bentgate site only has stock of the size 37. Same as everywhere I've looked online, the OG is mostly sold out except in a few sizes. 

Super glad to see the detailed comparison of old and new boostic.

Doug Hutchinson wrote: Curious if anyone has put more time in the new one?

I’ll try them out this weekend, 4-5 pitches. I was waiting for a sale and snagged a pair when I saw your post. I never climbed in the original, but I can compare them to other edging shoes I’ve owned and also my current daily climbers ( Chimera )

I got a couple pitches in these shoes yesterday and here are my initial impressions as someone who never used the first one. 

First off, this shoe costs a lot of money, even at the 25% off I found them for, still more $ than I have ever spent on a shoe. But in return I would say Scarpa has really put effort into making this a premium shoe, the build quality and materials are a very high standard similar to a La Sportiva flagship models. 

Secondly, it fits my foot very well. I have traditional duck feet, ( wear Altra shoes all the time ) with my second toe the same length as my big toe. Usually my wide forefoot gives me more issues than anything due to sideways compression making my feet ache pretty quickly. I wear 43.5 in Scarpa approach shoes and usually wear 42 in Scarpa ( Chimera, VSR ) and the 42 in the Boostic fits very well. Id say its similar in size to the Chimera as far as tightness, maybe 1/4 to 1/2 size smaller than the VSR which is a more comfortable fit for the size. The Boostic is very snug but not painful at all. I like my shoes pretty tight though, so it others might find this downsizing too much. 

I was impressed immediately by the performance of this shoe on real rock. Generally I wear pretty soft shoes but I found myself climbing super confidently on these shoes, they felt so planted and secure, just place my toe and forget about it. I guess I might say I cant feel the rock as good as a soft shoe but I didnt miss is. Also, it seemed that on moves where you bring your feet up pretty high, it was then easier to stand up on compared to a soft shoe. 

One thing I didnt feel confident in was the smearing ability. The toe just does not want to bend much at all, but I guess thats the purpose. On routes where you need to use really smeary holds , stemming on non-existent feet, or just have to plant your foot on a blank wall for a move I think I would much prefer a soft shoe, and might just always bring 2 shoes to the crag for this purpose. 

I think for vertical to just beyond vertical roots this is a great shoe, and look forward to climbing in them again. 

Can anyone compare the instinct lace to the Boostic for a low altitude free soloist mainly doing 3-6M pitches at a time?

I wear the women’s VS 90% of the time but sometimes on realllly small edges a worn in pair is just too soft. The Lace seems too close.

The boostic is much more asymmetric. Keep in mind the instinct is a center pointed shoe. I love the instinct and find the boostic unsuitable (new model) anywhere near the same size. (Due to my foot shape being relatively symmetrical)

Does anyone know how the new Boostic compares to the OG Booster S?  Since it seems a bit softer than the old Boostic.  Has anyone tried the new Booster?