Why do people hate on black diamond cams?

I wasn’t aware I should hate solid cams because of a bum beacon. 

Why do people hate on BD?  Maybe because they get tired of hating on TNF and need a change up?

When I looked into it, (minimally), I remember there were a lot of BD recalls in like 2015 or so- multiple biners, some cams, and even slings that were never bar tacked and were held together by a piece of tape. I couldn't find a single recall from metolius or any other climbing gear manufacturer. That's kind of scary. 

I really like metolius tcus and ultralight master cams for small stuff up to the black. I have a full rack and some doubles of c4s because I,  like everyone else got them at a steep discount. My partner has WC stuff and it feels the same to me. 

This was all out of genuine curiosity, specifically for cams. Although entertaining, I’m not trying to stir shit up through this discussion. I appreciate everything being brought to light during this discussion, feel free to threadshit with Big Lebowski memes at this point

Francois Dumaswrote:

Their headlamp sucks. (And people still buy them)

now this i can 100% get behind... 

Patrick Lwrote:

When I looked into it, (minimally), I remember there were a lot of BD recalls in like 2015 or so- multiple biners, some cams, and even slings that were never bar tacked and were held together by a piece of tape. I couldn't find a single recall from metolius or any other climbing gear manufacturer. That's kind of scary. 

Then you haven't been searching hard enough.

C.A.M.P. has had recalls

DMM has had recalls

Metolius has had recalls

Omega Pacific has had recalls

Petzl has had recalls

Wild Country has had recalls

Etc.

There are some hilarious comments on here. BD makes great climbing gear.... so do others. As long as they meet MBS its a matter of preference / what was available / recommended IMO.

If anyone on here that hates BD has some gear they don't want, I'm a DM away, and I'll take all those sub par pieces of gear off your hands for "science"

Idk why people can't hate on dmm more quite frankly, talk about crappy winter kit and no innovation. 

that guy named sebwrote:

Idk why people can't hate on dmm more quite frankly, talk about crappy winter kit and no innovation. 

Be the hate you want to see in the world! /s lol

that guy named sebwrote:

Idk why people can't hate on dmm more quite frankly, talk about crappy winter kit and no innovation. 

Because DMM is sexy.  That hot forge...

BD cams are NOT confidence inspiring when compared with Totems. 

Ted Pinsonwrote:

Because DMM is sexy.  That hot forge...

Everything is hot forged these days, its just hit forged in wales vs hot forged in Taiwan. 

When has anything made in Great Britain been more reliable that the same thing made in Taiwan?  

In terms of foreign manufacturing it's not really a quality issue so much as human rights, child labor etc.. Arc'teryx makes plenty of stuff in China and it's objectively well put together. 

With that said, Taiwan is not China. I've got no real issue buying stuff made in Taiwan (or Japan or S Korea). I'm actually pretty delighted to throw money their way. It's probably the most direct way I can personally antagonize the CCP. 

jdejacewrote:

In terms of foreign manufacturing it's not really a quality issue so much as human rights, child labor etc.. Arc'teryx makes plenty of stuff in China and it's objectively well put together. 

With that said, Taiwan is not China. I've got no real issue buying stuff made in Taiwan (or Japan or S Korea). I'm actually pretty delighted to throw money their way. It's probably the most direct way I can personally antagonize the CCP. 

But isn't BD's operation in mainland China?

Sorry, got a little off topic there and I wasn't referring specifically to BD.

I don't know where BD SLCD parts are currently made (final assembly is in SLC last I heard). Seems to change periodically. Certainly plenty of their stuff is made in China, last couple of jackets I looked at were and the shoes are. Can someone who has bought a 2020 or 2021 Camalot new clarify?

I'd consider "made in Taiwan" a pro rather than a con while shopping personally. Next best thing to being made in my own country and supporting local economy, basically on par with other developed countries (Canada, Europe, Japan etc..). The middle finger to the CCP is a bonus :-) But in BD's case I have other reasons to avoid them, even if they brought production back to the US.

that guy named sebwrote:

Everything is hot forged these days, its just hit forged in wales vs hot forged in Taiwan. 

You have an odd definition of "everything"

Gunkiemikewrote:

But isn't BD's operation in mainland China?

Black Diamond's cams, carabiners, etc. haven't been made in mainland China since 2015/16