Taz Lov2 Rope Access Device, Rope Solo?

 Noel Mo wrote:

Today I tried to call Taz in France to ask about the geometry and scale and whether these have changed in the newer version. After my saying „parlez-vous anglais?“ in a poor accent, the conversation dies awkwardly. In the mean time I have written an email to Taz. If I get a reply, I'll post here. My questions was: Has anything changed in the geometry or scale of the blocking mechanism or handle?

@dam0 Cles: You're lucky enough to have both versions. If you open them up and look at the actual blocking mechanism, its dimensions and where all parts are positioned, is there anything different?

A few photos to compare the Lov2 and Lov3. P.S waiting for a new tension cleat for my Lov2 on the left.

If one is going to use it for both LRS and TRS, I would suggest getting the Lov3. I have the Lov2 and it is bomber and if you're only going to TRS, it's fine. If you're going to LRS and use the setup below, you only have to undo the chest harness pulley. However for me and my Lov2, it doesn't seem like that much more work to take it off after leading and rapping and turn and flip the device - you don't even have to unload the rope. 

The following setup is from Yann Camus the owner of the Lead Rope Solo FB group

Cord around waist loop and leg loop --> swivel --> Petzl Ring Open --> Lov3 --> harness pulley

(This is similar and was his original setup: https://youtu.be/lTJwuIBLJ-k)

My comments and LRS setup:

A swivel is cool but it's just too many linkages for me. YMMV. 

The few times I've tried LRS with it, I've used one of the following two setups (sorry no photos):

1) steel auto locker --> belay loop --> Lov2 --> centered chest harness pulley

2) steel auto locker --> through harness loop & leg loop --> Lov2 facing left--->  harness pulley on left harness strap

The second setup has the Lov2 facing left to feed the pulley efficiently and it offsets and separates the live and dead lines slightly.

(I've used both a make-shift sling harness and a Petzl Torse for both TRS and LRS)

With either of these setups you have to remove the Lov2 to turn and flip it after you've lead and rapped the route so you can reascend in TRS mode.  However, it really not that big of a deal...you don't even need to take the rope out of it. 

I've mainly stopped leading these days (too old and am on blood thinners) so these are just a few tests that I've done in the past to check out how it is to use for LRS. However, I've been actively using it for a couple of years now for TRS and Lov it (pun intended) except for the size and weight.

PS - With this LRS setup, you need to tie an occasional back-up knot because of the good possibility of it not holding an inverted fall.

One other note in regards to a previous comment. It is my understanding that there is no rating differences between the Lov2 and Lov3. They've continue testing and approval ratings, but functionally (except for the ability to open the device while attached), the devices and their capabilities are the same. The ratings would apply to both devices even though even on early Lov2 devices it doesn't have the later ratings printed on it.

Hmm...interesting. You’re talking about TRS? I’ve never had an issue but then I carefully manage my rope and there’s never any slack build up. What size/kind of rope. How much rope was out when this occurred? I wonder about the spring in the cleat.  I‘ve had personal correspondence with someone from Japan (high-end climber - up to .14s) who had a Lov and the spring in the cleat seemed to not be up to par. I think he either got it exchanged or got a new spring - can’t remember.

I would never use two straight through devices together. I personally don’t like having two units that operate similarly. You could try extending the Lov up from the belay loop slightly with cording on separate the devices. In my climbing I climb very statically also - only an occasional dead point - no dyno’s.

I have used a Vergo a bit - but not as an added device for rapping. I‘ve used it instead of the Lov as the primary device for TRS: https://sicgrips.blogspot.com/2020/08/vergo-for-top-rope-soloing.html
It doesn’t pivot quite as much and depending upon the setup (size/type of rope) it may not feed quite as well (might require slightly more weight on the end of the rope). I use 9.4 - 9.6 ropes. You could possibly used it instead of a GG to lower as I outlined at the end of my post above.

Also for me I’ve just found some routes that are less than ideal for me to TRS - ones that wander, or have a lot of transition from overhanging to slab. The rope is always in my face and there is an outward pull unless I put a piece in to hold it in next to the wall. Best TRS for me is slightly less than to slightly more than vertical and that does not wander...YMMV

Glad you got it sorted out. I’ve used the Lov2 and MT with different ‘biners but I guess the combo was never small enough to cause the issues you had. 

Stay safe.

My head is hurting after them last few posts regarding LRS lol.

I think I will leave the Lead rope soloing to the hard core :) 

Noel Z wrote:

Lov2 Versions - Markings and cleat mount method

On the Taz Lov2, the "tension cleat" is either held in place with a screw, or it is riveted. The photo below is of a rivetted version. Replacing the screwed in cleat is simple. Taz will send one for €13 + shipping and it can be self assembled. If, however, your cleat is rivetted, then it must to sent to Taz in France, which would mean additional two-way shipping charges and a period without your device. Also, if you've modded it, would Taz send it back or refuse to repair it? Just thoughts... manufacturers can be sensitive about these things.

Lov3

I don't have a Lov3, but looking at the images on the internet, the cleat appears to be rivetted.  Also, it appears to not have the corresponding holes on the brake end which can be used to mount the device inverted to a chest harness, as seen here in the video.
https://youtu.be/lTJwuIBLJ-k?t=291

Another interesting in depth breakdown. 

Regarding replacing the tension cleat I can confirm there is no need to send the riveted version of either the Lov2 or Lov3 back to Taz in France.

Both my Lov2 and Lov3 are the riveted versions, As explained in previous posts I personally removed the Tension Cleat from my Lov2 . I did it by snipping the plastic down with a pair of pliers/cutters until all the plastic was removed just leaving the rivet. I then just gently rocked the rivet back and forth with my pliers until it snapped, very easy to remove with no damage to the Lov2 in the process. Pictures included with the Tension cleat removed from my Lov2 and in place on my Lov3 + instructions how to fit a new tension cleat.

Noel Z wrote:

That's useful to know. Taz told me otherwise. It's good to hear that the rivetted cleat is easily removed.
What about assembly? Did Taz send you the replacement? Is the replacement a screw in or a rivet one?

Hi
I'm still waiting for my replacement cleat, regarding the cleat I've been assured by Taz that it will be the screw in type and not the rivet type.

I assume Taz would not risk replacing with the rivet type otherwise the device would need to be shipped back to Taz and that wouldn't go down well with customers.
I wouldn't be happy personally. I think Taz have made a very wise decision by making the replacement a screw type self install. Judging by the instructions in the pic it looks very easy.
Soon as I receive my replacement cleat I will do a little vid documenting the install.

Sorry its taken so long to post the Tension Cleat Replacement Tutorial I've been very very busy  the last couple of months. I finally got around to doing the vid. Anyone interested check it out below.

https://youtu.be/-7gE15CFewI

dam0 Cleswrote:

Sorry its taken so long to post the Tension Cleat Replacement Tutorial I've been very very busy  the last couple of months. I finally got around to doing the vid. Anyone interested check it out below.

https://youtu.be/-7gE15CFewI

How many TRS pitches do you reckon the cleat is good for?

Chris Hwrote:

How many TRS pitches do you reckon the clean is good for?

Hi good question, 

We have both the Taz Lov2 and Lov3 and have a good few hundred pitches under our belts now between them. Our Lov2 which is the one I've replaced the tension cleat on in the video was nothing to do with wear and tear with the tension cleat. I can barely see any wear and tear on our Lov3 the same with our Lov2 as I remember. 

There is no wear and tear as far as I can tell climbing and taking falls I'm sure there is but its negligible in my opinion. Most wear and tear will obviously happen abseiling down after a completed pitch. To be honest the plastic the Tension Cleat is made from looks and feels absolutely solid. I'd hazard a guess at a good few hundred or more pitches yet easy :)

At 13 euros plus shipping for a replacement and the ease of doing it yourself I think it's a brilliant piece of kit for TRS :) 

Noel Z wrote:

Thanks for posting the instructional video @dam0 Cles!

The cleat is hard wearing and actually exposed to very litte friction. It has that fibreglass reinforced feel, akin to a GriGri's handle. The cleat puts a subtle bend in a bearly weighted rope (bottom weight). The friction created is rope dependent, but always minimal. During rappels, hauling, belaying or just weighting the rope, there is never contact. Once the rope is weighted there is no longer contact with the cleat.

Couldn't of put it better myself thanks. 

Noel Z wrote:

A Lov3 I tested had a cleat which I could easily make stick open. There is a document on Taz's site about this. It appears only to apply to Lov3s. I don't know whether one could unintentionally lock it open? The pointy grippy tab end is theoretically accessible to fingers, objects and clothing with the device closed. My Lov2 doesn't have this problem. 

See page 2 here.
https://taz3d.fr/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/ADD9-Warning-closing-mobile-plate-and-cleat-misuse-210316.pdf

Interesting thanks.

Comparing both our Lov2 and Lov3 since I've replaced the Tension cleat on the Lov2 I found that the Tension Cleat on the Lov3 is definitely stiffer. Whereas on the Lov2 it moves so much smoother and better. I was thinking maybe a little dirt has gotten under the Tension cleat of the Lov3 then i read your post. I will keep my eye on it.

Thanks for the link.

Noel Z wrote:

The Lov2 is elegantly simple, long-term field tested and bomber.

We love our Lov3 and are both perfectly comfortable and happy using it for TRS and will continue to do so but if the push came to the shove and we was forced to choose between the two of them we would have to choose our Lov2 as we are of the same mind with the reasons you mentioned above. 

Noel Z wrote:

@dam0 Cles: glad to see you Lov2 ready for action! 

The Lov3 I tested, the one with the sticking cleat, belongs to a distant climbing friend. I know that he has since modified the cleat by simply filing off the tab so that it doesn't stick out at all and can't grabbed accidently with the device closed. I know he is happily LRSing and TRSing with it. I've have asked him for a photo. If I get one, I'll post it here.

Thanks @Noel Z we've been out at our local crags today using both our Lov2/3 it's the first time we've used the Lov2 with the new Tension Cleat and it worked like a dream which I had no doubt about. Buzzing to the max :)

I will be interested to see your climbing buddy's modded Lov3.

Anything that is already almost perfect in it's own way that can be modded to be even better I'm all for.