Gymclimber mag - Auto Belay related lawsuit

"their insurer will take this to the mat. "

If you read the article, it says the insurer wanted to settle.  Johnston the gym owner refused.  The whole gym industry association ought to back him in the lawsuit.

tom donnelly wrote:

If you read the article, it says the insurer wanted to settle.  Johnston the gym owner refused.  The whole gym industry association ought to back him in the lawsuit.

If the settlement is less than the policy limit, and 1M certainly seems within a gym policy, then the gym likely has no say in the matter of settling - so something else is likely going on with the involved parties - like the insurance company knows the case is shit and offered them way less than they wanted and here they all are.

He likely partially clipped with a "snag-nose" auto locker. Best to use key lockers, they slide off if partially clipped.

There’s a “gymclimber magazine”  *face/palm”

oy- am I out of the loop

seriously- suing over your own incompetence is a douche move  

Maidy Vasquez wrote:

There’s a “gymclimber magazine”  *face/palm”

oy- am I out of the loop

It's no worse than any of the others and the price ($0) is right

Mark E Dixon wrote:

It's no worse than any of the others and the price ($0) is right

The price matches the value.

Not too many trad/alpine articles, I'll give you that 

Maidy Vasquez wrote:

There’s a “gymclimber magazine”  *face/palm”

oy- am I out of the loop

seriously- suing over your own incompetence is a douche move  

Hey, at least it should keep indoor climbing content out of the traditional climbing publications 

Last month I rented a mountain bike in Moab. They shuttled me up a hill and I spent the next two hours gripped out of my mind sailing over jumps (why are there jumps??) and narrowly avoiding boulders on sick single track. 

How the fuck is an auto belay a problem but I can do that? Lol

Anyone remember the old story of the "McD's drivethru hot coffee in the lap" incident. Sounds just like that. Don't get me wrong... I'm bummed the gal got hurt, but take responsibility for your OWN actions! Let's say you're driving along on the highway and coming up to a 40 mph curve (with sign posted '40mph Curve') and you're doing 70mph and get into a serious accident. You're gonna sue the DOT (dept of transportation) for not having someone standing there with a yellow caution flag waving to slow down? COME ON PEOPLE!

Side note, that hot coffee lawsuit was legit, but came out as a story about how frivolous lawsuits are ruining this country blah blah blah. It was negligent to serve coffee as hot as McDonald’s did when serving it just a few degrees cooler would not result in horrendous third degree burns in case it was spilled. Did you see the woman’s lap? It was an honestly life altering injury that was preventable on McDonald’s part.

A climbing gym that gives absolutely no instruction on how to use an auto belay would be negligent. A climbing gym that makes users watch an instructional video, get checked off by a staff member, sign a waiver acknowledging the risks involved, and puts up signs explain how to use the auto belay and someone still manages to fuck it up and sues, that is a frivolous lawsuit. Hope that this guy does not win. 

Kip Kasper wrote:

Side note, that hot coffee lawsuit was legit, but came out as a story about how frivolous lawsuits are ruining this country blah blah blah. It was negligent to serve coffee as hot as McDonald’s did when serving it just a few degrees cooler would not result in horrendous third degree burns in case it was spilled. Did you see the woman’s lap? It was an honestly life altering injury that was preventable on McDonald’s part.

A climbing gym that gives absolutely no instruction on how to use an auto belay would be negligent. A climbing gym that makes users watch an instructional video, get checked off by a staff member, sign a waiver acknowledging the risks involved, and puts up signs explain how to use the auto belay and someone still manages to fuck it up and sues, that is a frivolous lawsuit. Hope that this guy does not win. 

Totally agree with you Kip, the coffee was INDEED hot, almost to boiling point and the injury was horrendous. Preventable on McD's part? Absolutely, Preventable on the lady's part? Absolutely.  

Who told you to put the balm on? I didn’t tell you to put the balm on! Why’d you put the balm on!? If you’re going to put a balm on, let a doctor put the balm on.

So, for a quick legal analysis:

There is a big gap between common negligence and gross negligence. Common negligence is something that is similar to carelessness that results in damage to someone or something. This would be like if you failed to repair a crack in your driveway that someone trips and falls over.

Gross negligence is more reckless or egregious. It would be like a doctor failing to ask you your medical history and then giving you medication that causes an adverse reaction that the doctor would have known if they had reviewed your file.

The reason this is significant here is that negligence typically limits your recourse to your actual damages (I.e. medical bills, lost wages, etc.). Gross negligence allows you to recover your actual damages plus punitive/consequential damages which are additional funds to essentially punish someone who was grossly negligent. By way of example, if the gym was found to be grossly negligent, the court could say the injured climber was entitled to their actual damages as well as an additional sum to punish the gym for so brazenly flouting the rules. If the gym was found to only be negligent, the injured climb would likely be limited to his actual damages from the injury. I should also note, the court could rule the injured climber was frivolous in filing and could require the climber to pay the gym’s attorney’s fees as well as additional sums as punishment for filing a silly lawsuit.

I think it’s going to be a very difficult case for the injured climber to win, either for negligence or gross negligence. That said, the devil is always in the details here and one “Gym Climber” magazine article doesn’t give nearly enough information to make an accurate prediction, but superficially, it seems like a flimsy claim.

EDITED TO ADD: Another reason these claims arise is because strategically, it can force a settlement and result in a relatively quick pay day for the climber and his attorney. If a lawyer can come up with enough “legitimate” claims where the gym could be found liable for a large sum of money, often they gym has to decide between incurring the expense of hiring their own attorney to defend them (could very easily be 50k plus depending on the complexity of the case) or paying this guy to go away.

What a piece of shit.

Childless Trad Dad wrote:

Last time I visited my parents in the US, I took my British partner to a shooting range to show her “American culture.” They handed us a literal death machine with literally no instruction of any kind and said have fun. If we had blown our own fingers/heads off, I doubt any lawyer would have taken our case. But if it’s (gasp) carabiners at a climbing gym...

The US is a strange country. 

I know, right?

Walk into any steak house in the USA and no one even blinks to see everyone, even children, eating with large knives. (Some even with points!)

Auto belays should have a "weighting" function before they even begin to retract. This would mean they wouldn't even work unless they've been weighted once before starting, almost undoubtedly proving you have it connected and are ready to climb. Obviously this could also not be fully fool-proof, because...

Please send payments for this idea to my consulting firm's account on Venmo, or Paypal!

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

Auto belays should have a "weighting" function before they even begin to retract. This would mean they wouldn't even work unless they've been weighted once before starting, almost undoubtedly proving you have it connected and are ready to climb. Obviously this could also not be fully fool-proof, because...

Please send payments for this idea to my consulting firm's account on Venmo, or Paypal!

Every time I clip into one, I've done this. 1) Clip in. 2) Lean back and fall on the mat. 3) Rest there a moment, scoping out the route...

Never had an auto-belay failure yet. 

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

Auto belays should have a "weighting" function before they even begin to retract. This would mean they wouldn't even work unless they've been weighted once before starting, almost undoubtedly proving you have it connected and are ready to climb. Obviously this could also not be fully fool-proof, because...

Please send payments for this idea to my consulting firm's account on Venmo, or Paypal!

How about a wifi enabled carabiner that triggers an alarm if it remains open and unlocked for more than a few seconds?

PRRose wrote:

How about a wifi enabled carabiner that triggers an alarm if it remains open and unlocked for more than a few seconds?

I think this is a really cool idea. 

Edit - considering distances involved low-E BT might make battery last longer