Cancel Free Soloing

Greg Daviswrote:

Interesting feedback from the accident on Nutcracker

https://www.climbing.com/news/fallen-soloist-im-remorseful-for-what-happened/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=onsiteshare&fbclid=IwAR2bsgccrWXrrlG_wLuXS1K2DlSaHXUhHzRuqjojOptWjTKEMV-FYr5i7tg

Glad to hear he is in good spirits. Hope he gets stable and can start to move on with some new adventures.

This is great news! Perhaps Josh can begin to reach out to soloists and tell his story in an effort to curb their enthusiasm. I believe he would make an excellent steward to spread our message. Do you think the Access Fund would be interested in doing a round table?

caughtinside wrote:

Also not sure what makes it “lame AF.”  Nothing more trad than running it out all the way.

Whenever someone says "AF," I assume they're talking about American Fork.

caughtinside wrote:

I’d be interested to hear about the climbing area that have been closed because a soloist fell.

There’s about 2 chopper evacs a summer at Lovers Leap, generally from a roped leader decking. Crag still open.

Also not sure what makes it “lame AF.”  Nothing more trad than running it out all the way.

Carolina's comment is rather off imo as well, but there IS a relevent point to it: land managers, on average, don't like people dying on their land.

Yes sure there are climbing accidents and crags are still open. However, generally speaking, it would be prudent from us as community to understand that most people don't have the same risk tolerance. There comes a point as a land manager where "keeping climbing there because it's been there for a while already" is outweighted by "I don't want to deal with this shit anymore" and they decide to stop/restrict climbing in some ways. That's the broader trend in society as well - when accidents occur, shit out a new rule to "prevent" the accident from happening. Paragliders said it happened to a number of site for their activity where I live. To negate it could be the case with climbing as well is to be naïve.

Pnelsonwrote:

Yeah, this clip just popped up on youtube; anyone else seen it? Looks like it's on a busy day on Dark Shadows, maybe? I'm not too psyched on the soloist's choice to just motor past all these groups.

Poor Max will never live this down. This is a friend a former partner of mine. He was on a year+ long road trip and took up a lot of soloing. After this video surfaced, he took a lot of flak from both strangers and people that knew him. 

Personally, I don't have a problem with soloing. Climbing is all about accepting risk and there are plenty of climbers who are roped that I would be more sketched out by then some that go unroped. With that said, I do think if you are soloing and knowingly start up a climb that is occupied, knowing full well that you're going to have to pass people that may not be ok with it, then you are selfish. There is plenty of rock to solo. But, if it happened to me, I may be pissed but I would still let them pass. Because, what are your options? The only safe one is to politely let them pass. 

Please allow me to introduce Facetious Carolina. Not all who wander are lost.

caughtinside wrote:

I’d be interested to hear about the climbing area that have been closed because a soloist fell.

There’s about 2 chopper evacs a summer at Lovers Leap, generally from a roped leader decking. Crag still open.

Also not sure what makes it “lame AF.”  Nothing more trad than running it out all the way.

Let me try to say this another way.  If soloing continues to become a regular part of accepted "climbing culture" then as accidents happen and regulators are pressured to act and prevent more tragedies (where have I heard that before). It will become increasingly difficult for land managers/regulators to distinguish soloing from traditionally accepted recreational climbing with ropes. If we as a community discourage soloing then we can preserve climbing access while also preserving the freedom (and cover) for climbers too solo if they so choose. Hopefully at uncrowded routes and by their own free will and not for notoriety, movies or fame.

Tradibanwrote:

Do you think the Access Fund would be interested in doing a round table?

A round table to tell people that your actions affect others, this guy regrets making a mistake, and please be mindful not to suck?  

I think this is about the right time to ask Tradi what he thinks of free soloing a busy route on a weekend at a packed crag, while drinking and encouraging other climbers to drink while climbing?

If someone had evidence of Tradi doing that, would he delete this thread and walk away in shame?

Stileswrote:

A round table to tell people that your actions affect others, this guy regrets making a mistake, and please be mindful not to suck?  

That was the petroglyph round table. I think he is asking to do a new one about free soloing.

Carolinawrote:

If soling continues to become a regular part of accepted "climbing culture"

Purely on this point, "continues to become" makes it sound as if soloing and its acceptance is a relatively new thing. As far as I'm aware it's always been an accepted part of climbing culture; and, of course, the further back you go the less difference you'll find between 'soloing' and 'leading' - right back to a time when the two were indistinguishable!

This is a pretty interesting thread for someone who occasionally likes to spend a weekend soloing at the Leap and has never really talked to a roped party about their real feelings on the subject. For context, I work your typical 9-5 M-F and can only get down to the Leap on weekends. If you've been to the Leap on a summer weekend you know that no route is unoccupied. Usually, I'm not planning to fall, but to have an enjoyable weekend (the reason any of us climb with/without rope), I pass people a lot.  I stick to a couple rules for myself and have only been grumbled at a couple times in many hundreds of pitches. I never pass a leader, always ask if I can pass, and generally will hang out or take an alt route if they are not comfortable with me being there. As to the teaching moment from soloists that was mentioned earlier in the thread, I think it is kinda a dick move to say anything unless they have an obviously dangerous anchor or they have very shakily led a pitch and I want to give the the confidence boost by complimenting their solid gear placements and sending a sweet pitch (which I recognize may still be taken the wrong way by some people). 

The whole "cocky soloist" thing though I take issue with, personally. I solo to get  bunch of flowy climbing in to replace the flow feeling I got from trail running before injuries got the better of me there. 

On a separate note though, the way I climb Nutcracker with a rope would result in a very similar length fall to the one taken by the soloist recently (100+ ft). What are people's thoughts on super run out simul-climbers vs soloists in terms of the danger they feel they are in? I would argue simul-climbing can often be a higher risk activity than soloing due to the presence of more things that could go wrong and more people to get hurt.

J Cwrote:

I think this is about the right time to ask Tradi what he thinks of free soloing a busy route on a weekend at a packed crag, while drinking and encouraging other climbers to drink while climbing?

If someone had evidence of Tradi doing that, would he delete this thread and walk away in shame?

This whole thread is a thinly veiled tongue in cheek troll. What makes it difficult is he keeps popping in and out of character.

However there has been some actually constructive discussion, despite his heroic attempts at throwing a wrench at ‘em.

caughtinside wrote:

Well we can just make up as many speculative scenarios as we want as we try to understand the mysterious “land managers.”

a far more likely scenario is that these land managers see the amount of climbers quintuple and the trash they leave quadruple and ban climbing. Or they decide that the rocks are sacred to the local tribe and ban climbing. Or a bird nests in the cliff and they ban climbing. Or they plan to quarry the cliff and ban climbing.

These are all actual reasons I have seen climbing access threatened. 

This is exactly why we must be vigilant.  If they'll ban climbing for birds then why not people.  Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't.

Marc Hwrote:

I thought you left..

Ditto. Didn't MP show you the door?

J Cwrote:

I think this is about the right time to ask Tradi what he thinks of free soloing a busy route on a weekend at a packed crag, while drinking and encouraging other climbers to drink while climbing?

If someone had evidence of Tradi doing that, would he delete this thread and walk away in shame?

My free soloing past has already been well documented in this thread. A man can evolve can't he?

More importantly, why didn't you do something to stop me?

Trolliban at his finest! 

J C wrote:

If someone had evidence of Tradi doing that, would he delete this thread and walk away in shame?

I don't think the current Tradiban is the same fellow that hands out cold ones at Suicide. The old one was much more fun to banter with, current one, not so much. 

i have had a couple uncomfortable situations that have influenced my opinion about free soloing above or below other folks.  

1) about 15 years ago my wife and i were climbing in eldo on cold windy winter day.  it was her first day climbing after recovering from a broken bone in her foot and we were doing an easy route (dirty deed). some guy who was soloing icarus freaked out and traversed over onto ytrid deed, and then traversed over onto dirty deed above us.  my wife was leading and he was maybe 40 feet above her and shaking like a leaf. he couldn't move for about 10 minutes. finally the guy managed to get his shit together a bit and was able to proceed to the top. pretty lame.

2) about 25 years ago i was at the top of the 2nd pitch of bastille crack belaying my partner (beginner) up to me.  she fell, and a guy soloing right under her (literally up her ass) almost got cleaned off.  he gets up to the belay and is pissed at her for falling and me for bringing somebody who might fall on the route.  again, pretty lame...

Adam Burch wrote:

I've climbed with Tradiban once and it made me want a drink.

I often want a drink... does that mean I should climb with him?

Andrew Krajnikwrote:

I often want a drink... does that mean I should climb with him?

Maybe you should drink with him. Climb by yourself.

(Maybe I missed the point of this thread?)