Trad Gear on a Sport Route

I was at a local crag last weekend and noticed a party practicing gear placements on a sport bolted climb. It was a moderate climb but one that was well bolted. They were not clipping the bolts but instead placing nuts and cams. They didn't seem to be practicing falling on gear and so I would assume there is/was little damage to the rock. I was wondering what people's opinions are on this. Is this accepted as ok? Once a line is bolted should it be always climbed as such? Simply very curious. 

It's OK.

If anything it's better to climb a sport route on gear!!

Potter Wonderland wrote:

If anything it's better to climb a sport route on gear!!

Not in any way disagreeing or agreeing just curious what you mean by "better"?

You can climb it with out rope, naked, if you want. 

Liam Coughlin wrote:

Not in any way disagreeing or agreeing just curious what you mean by "better"?

I feel more accomplished climbing a route on gear than I do clipping bolts. And if it's a bolted route that I place gear on I feel even more accomplished. 

Sport bolted routes get kinda old. Placing gear instead of clipping is an awesome challenge or just skipping bolts in general is fun too. 

I personally just think it's more fun (better) to challenge myself rather than clip a bolt every 5 feet...

Liam Coughlin wrote:

Not in any way disagreeing or agreeing just curious what you mean by "better"?

Nothing is "better" technically just personally!

Liam Coughlin wrote:

They didn't seem to be practicing falling on gear and so I would assume there is/was little damage to the rock.

Have you used cams and nuts before? They almost never damage the rock. You can occasionally get blowouts when you fall on really soft rock, but that's about it. Its not like they were drytooling or nailing. Many people consider an ascent on removable gear to be "better style" than an ascent on fixed gear. Also, if you can protect the climb adequately with removable gear, that brings up the question of whether it should have been bolted in the first place.

What you saw was climbers doing what the mags tried unsuccessfuly a few years ago to brand as "greenpointing," as if placing gear instead of clipping bolts on an already cleaned and prepped sport line is somehow environmentally conscious.

It's a cool party trick when someone does it on a "hard" sport line that they probably already have ruthlessly wired, but if you ever break a critical flake with a cam placement on a classic sport line, you should probably hang your head in shame, sell your gear, and quit climbing.

Liam Coughlin wrote:

Pnelson wrote:

What you saw was climbers doing what the mags tried unsuccessfuly a few years ago to brand as "greenpointing," as if placing gear instead of clipping bolts on an already cleaned and prepped sport line is somehow environmentally conscious.

It's a cool party trick when someone does it on a "hard" sport line that they probably already have ruthlessly wired, but if you ever break a critical flake with a cam placement on a classic sport line, you should probably hang your head in shame, sell your gear, and quit climbing.

You should absolutely tell this to Sonny Trotter...

Buck Rio wrote:

Why would you think trad gear would damage the rock??? 

Routes with soft sandstone can be damaged by cams and nuts - bolts are considered a better way to protect rock. 

Buck Rio wrote:

You should absolutely tell this to Sonny Trotter...

Yeah, it was lame that he worked The Path on bolts before chopping them and sending it on gear, but it was also an FA, soooooo...

Maybe it started a Trad route but wasn't inclusive enough so it got bolted?

The thing that's wrong was putting bolts in the first place. They are only doing their best to make things right.

Kyle Elliott wrote:

Maybe it started a Trad route but wasn't inclusive enough so it got bolted?

Must this stuff seep into every thread?

Marc801 C wrote:

Must this stuff seep into every thread?

Just the dumb ones

Marc801 C wrote:

Must this stuff seep into every thread?

Ideally, yes.

Kyle Elliott wrote:

Maybe it started a Trad route but wasn't inclusive enough so it got bolted?

So you climb at Rumney?

Pnelson wrote:

What you saw was climbers doing what the mags tried unsuccessfuly a few years ago to brand as "greenpointing," as if placing gear instead of clipping bolts on an already cleaned and prepped sport line is somehow environmentally conscious.

It's a cool party trick when someone does it on a "hard" sport line that they probably already have ruthlessly wired, but if you ever break a critical flake with a cam placement on a classic sport line, you should probably hang your head in shame, sell your gear, and quit climbing.

The point was to promote cleaner (leave no trace) climbing, showcasing that if a route can be lead on gear, it shouldn’t need to be permanently altered with bolts. Which in most cases are visible, leaving an unnecessary “trace”.  It didn’t catch on because climbers, even  self proclaimed “environmentalists” and people in general will always prefer convenience over the environment. 

Salamanizer Ski wrote:

The point was to promote cleaner (leave no trace) climbing, showcasing that if a route can be lead on gear, it shouldn’t need to be permanently altered with bolts. Which in most cases are visible, leaving an unnecessary “trace”.  It didn’t catch on because climbers, even  self proclaimed “environmentalists” and people in general will always prefer convenience over the environment. 

In the case of bolting faces of rock, the environmental impact is neglible (unless you want to get into silly what-ifs about lithium drill batteries or something like that). Traddies have long tried to contrive their narrative of bold boltlessness into one of environmental stewardship, but anyone who has seen the damage of slung trees and mandatory walkoffs know that it's a pretty silly direction to take "environmentalism."

Stop trying to make "greenpoint" happen.  It's not going to happen.