Cancel Free Soloing

I don't know, I don't think his comments were something I found an issue with. Just a podcast - I wouldn't read that much into it. 

@Andrew

I'm with AV here- I got the distinct impression from the podcast that both you and Chris characterized anti-soloists as jealous, mediocre wanna-be's.

I don't like being around soloists, but it's the same feeling I get when nearby climbers are doing sketchy dangerous things.

I'm not worried they are going to fall on me, maybe, but I don't really want to get sucked into a rescue or watch someone die.

I stick to single pitch sport now, so if I'm not happy, I just go somewhere else.

I can see why a multipitch climber might not be thrilled to have somebody solo through, or get stuck behind a party without basic safety skills.

But it kind of goes with the territory these days, being around other climbers you might prefer to avoid.

Darin Berdinkawrote:

Soloing past other groups and creating an objective hazard they did not account for when they chose a climb is a complete dick move, no way around it.  Solo something obscure if that’s what you need to be doing.

Don’t you know anything about soloing? You can’t solo Mon-Fri, that’s the time to contemplate on meaning of life and how soloing makes you free and alive. Optimal time to solo is on a weekend at the busiest crag in your area. Also, it has to be a classic line so you can stroll by the conga line and start soloing casually. Bonus points for pissing people off while passing by them.

Fehim Hasecicwrote:

 You can’t solo Mon-Fri...Optimal time to solo is on a weekday

Wat

Darin Berdinkawrote:

Builderer-soloist falls/kills pedestrian

I wouldn’t click on this virus-filled page.  Plus it’s a story about a guy jumping off a parking garage, not related to climbing in any way.

First of all I just want to thank everyone for the great discussion.

Alexander Blumwrote:

Climbing is risky. The risks exist on a continuum, but there is no “safe” form of climbing. A pretty fundamental aspect of this sport is that people can choose where they want to sit on the continuum. If people start dying from being struck by fallen soloists then a debate should be had, but this is ridiculous. Let people enjoy the mountains how they like.

I agree, I think the risk of a soloist falling on your head is pretty small compared to all the other hazards you should be worried about. That said, I think if a soloist did fall on someone people's opinion on this would instantly flip and they would be screaming bloody murder about the reckless soloists. Food for thought.

All that however does not address the very real and present trauma that survivors and friends and family of a fallen soloist experience.  Let's imagine that a simple conversation with a soloist you know or see passing you by on a climb could potentially save their life and spare many people trauma and grief. 

Greg Davis wrote:

Do you remember free soloing above me while I was giving first aid to a climber who had taken a bad fall so you could retrieve his gear? Probably could have waited on that until after we extracted him.

Interesting that you insinuate that I didn't help the victim as I was the one who saw the fall and jumped in immediately. It was a short ramp to retrieve the lone remaining piece, hardly a solo, and I had already handed over "first aid" duties to a doctor, who was your partner?

I apologize if my "solo" caused you trauma or harm however, I don't understand your animosity.

Tradibanwrote:

Interesting that you insinuate that I didn't help the victim as I was the one who saw the fall and jumped in immediately. It was a short ramp to retrieve the lone remaining piece, hardly a solo, and I had already handed over "first aid" duties to a doctor, who was your partner?

I apologize if my "solo" caused you trauma or harm however, I don't understand your animosity.

At no point did I insinuate that, and I didn't experience any 'trauma.' I just thought it was a funny footnote and an ironic twist for the discussion at hand. Anything beyond that is all in your head, mannn.

Jim Twrote:

There was sound.  The roped climber said “just don’t fall on me”, which I would hope most people wouldn’t say in that moment.

People actually say that a lot to soloists. I think it's just their way of dealing with an uncomfortable situation.

I was in the middle of an easy solo once when a group came up to the base of the crag and one twit started yelling "where's your cell phone in your bag?  I need to be able to call 911 if you fall!"

Jim Twrote:

There was sound.  The roped climber said “just don’t fall on me”, which I would hope most people wouldn’t say in that moment.

Thanks - I watched it again with the sound up.

The leader was muttering that to himself. Perhaps unthinking - regrets at agreeing to let him pass? I doubt the free soloist heard as he was some distance below. 

tradiban. animosity is what you strive for. its your whole gig. at least that is how you come across on the forum.  I have no idea what you are like in real life but on here all you do is troll, push buttons and try to piss people off. 

 I don't see the logic on being surprised when you are successful.  

as for the rest of you ninnys. please just do us all a favor and take up knitting. Climbing is dangerous.  Climbing is also all about freedom.  that person out there climbing by themself is not imposing on you.   they are no more likly to fall and need scraping up than you are to lower off the end of your rope and need scraping up.  when you chastise that person for  climbing alone YOU are the one imposing. 

Greg Daviswrote:

At no point did I insinuate that, and I didn't experience any 'trauma.' I just thought it was a funny footnote and an ironic twist for the discussion at hand. Anything beyond that is all in your head, mannn.

While I disagree that my action was a solo I do think your feelings scratch the surface of the issue at hand. What is it exactly that makes people uncomfortable about soloists? I understand why you didn't speak up at the time, you were occupied assisting your doctor friend, but why didn't you reach out soon afterwards with your concerns? I think the answers to these questions can help us all engage with soloists in the future and perhaps change their minds about their actions.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

tradiban. animosity is what you strive for. its your whole gig. at least that is how you come across on the forum.  I have no idea what you are like in real life but on here all you do is troll, push buttons and try to piss people off. 

 I don't see the logic on being surprised when you are successful.  

as for the rest of you ninnys. please just do us all a favor and take up knitting. Climbing is dangerous.  Climbing is also all about freedom.  that person out there climbing by themself is not imposing on you.   they are no more likly to fall and need scraping up than you are to lower off the end of your rope and need scraping up.  when you chastise that person for  climbing alone YOU are the one imposing. 

I dunno Nick, your statement sounds fairly antagonist here but I digress...

I never spoke of chastising anyone, I just think more of us should be having a conversation with soloists about their actions and how they affect others.

soloists make people uncomfortable because trauma is traumatic.  A soloist isnt going to pick up their own parts, somebody else has to do that.  It's sickening to see a person on the edge of catastrophy.  l leave in that situation.    Everybody's day is ruined, and youre traumatised for a long time after, to the point of nightmares and potentially not wishing to climb any longer. 

Soloists: "If l make a mess, you gotta clean it up (so fuck you)".  

Excellent discussion! Its funny that so much emotion is displayed over a discussion though, the cancel culture is in full swing these days so it seems appropriate to discuss canceling things we (some) take for granted.  The thing is if we keep trying to cancel things we dont agree with we will end up with a bland country with less freedom and I believe this is the point with this thread. 

Now I have to get back to naming some new routes which I suck at but now with the cancel culture coming for the guidebooks I have to come up with names that wont make someone feel uncomfortable or marginalized. One of my routes has already been redacted because it had the word "gay" in it go figure. It wasn't the least bit offensive, someone got upset because of one word!

How about that soloist Kyle Walker, I wonder what he has to say.

Tradibanwrote:

While I disagree that my action was a solo I do think your feelings scratch the surface of the issue at hand. What is it exactly that makes people uncomfortable about soloists? I understand why you didn't speak up at the time, you were occupied assisting your doctor friend, but why didn't you reach out soon afterwards with your concerns? I think the answers to these questions can help us all engage with soloists in the future and perhaps change their minds about their actions.

I dunno Nick, your statement sounds fairly antagonist here but I digress...

I never spoke of chastising anyone, I just think more of us should be having a conversation with soloists about their actions and how they affect others.

Do you engage with yourself every morning in the mirror?  Do as I say and not as I do?

Tradibanwrote:

While I disagree that my action was a solo I do think your feelings scratch the surface of the issue at hand. What is it exactly that makes people uncomfortable about soloists? I understand why you didn't speak up at the time, you were occupied assisting your doctor friend, but why didn't you reach out soon afterwards with your concerns? I think the answers to these questions can help us all engage with soloists in the future and perhaps change their minds about their actions.

You didn’t make me uncomfortable, although I was providing first aid to a badly hurt climber (takes more than 1 person sometimes). I’m just taking the piss. 

You’re a weird guy nick. 

Grendles Modorwrote:

Do you engage with yourself every morning in the mirror?  Do as I say and not as I do?

Tis true! I was once a lost soul myself and I am surprised I was never once engaged by the public regarding my soloing. How would you have reacted to this encounter yourself?

Tradiban wrote:

Tis true! I was once a lost soul myself and I am surprised I was never once engaged by the public regarding my soloing. How would you have reacted to this encounter yourself?

I would have been waiting for you at the top with a cold PBR...

Mark E Dixonwrote:

I don't like being around soloists, but it's the same feeling I get when nearby climbers are doing sketchy dangerous things.

I don't think this is true in general.  I think most just don't want to be involved in someone's narcissistic feed.  It's uncomfortable and annoying.  Watching someone make beginner mistakes is different.

Disagree as well with Andrew's podcast that somehow free soloists on Cat in the Hat represents some sort of high level achievement that might make lesser skilled climbers jealous.  Acting like a daredevil jackass willing to risk your life on a 5.6 doesn't make very many functional, mentally healthy adults jealous.  Watching someone make a 5.13 look effortless - not the same thing.

Bill Schickwrote:

I don't think this is true in general.  I think most just don't want to be involved in someone's narcissistic feed.  It's uncomfortable and annoying.  Watching someone make beginner mistakes is different.

Disagree as well with Andrew's podcast that somehow free soloists on Cat in the Hat represents some sort of high level achievement that might make lesser skilled climbers jealous.  Acting like a daredevil jackass willing to risk your life on a 5.6 doesn't make very many functional, mentally healthy adults jealous.  Watching someone make a 5.13 look effortless - not the same thing.

You may be right in general, that's just the way I feel- or rather, imagine I'd feel.

tbh, I can't remember being around a soloist (except on the Second Flatiron.)

Not enough time on Cat in the Hat, I guess :-)