Micro cams

I love my small Metolius ULMCs, but because of the design, they aren’t great in horizontals. I had high hopes for the Z4s, but the triggers on 0.2 and below feel about as precise as a stapler in jello. So...

Debating between DMM Dragonflies or maybe the WC Zeros Friends for small horizontal placements. Micro sizes only (BD .3 or less equivalent).

Thoughts? TIA

Micro hexes are the best option for you. 

Just curious, what don’t you like about ULMCs in horizontals? I only ask because I’ve always felt pretty secure with them in those placements

Emilio Sosawrote:

Just curious, what don’t you like about ULMCs in horizontals? I only ask because I’ve always felt pretty secure with them in those placements

They are definitely secure and would hold a fall, but the way the outside wires are oriented (the ones with the plastic shealths), you will destroy the cam if you fall on one in that orientation. I'd rather get a cam with a more flexible stem designed specifically for horizontals and only use my ULMCs in a pinch for those placements.

Chris Fedorczakwrote:

They are definitely secure and would hold a fall, but the way the outside wires are oriented (the ones with the plastic shealths), you will destroy the cam if you fall on one in that orientation. I'd rather get a cam with a more flexible stem designed specifically for horizontal placements and only use my ULMCs in a pinch. 

Ah, fair enough. I have yet to take a whipper on a horizontal master cam, so I haven’t experienced that

I've got some experience with the zero friends (in sizes 0.1-0.3), they're my second set of cams (the first set is totems). I've only aided on the ZFs so far (I'll take them free climbing on sunday probably).

Flexibility: .1 and .2 are quite floppy (especially the .2, but that might be because I've managed to kink mine a bit), the .3 is less so, but still more easily bendable than the equivalent totem.

Trigger feel: .1 and .2 are very nice and smooth, the .3 is "sticky" or something. It has a pretty high force required to pull it initially and then the lobes jump straight to ~90 degrees, after which it's continuous, but stiff, to ~180 degrees. I only have a sample size of one, so I don't know if thats a consistent problem with the .3.

Other thoughts: They all felt solid when I bounced them in actual placements; and their head width is just barely wider than that of the smallest totems (if that matters to you).

Overall I really like the .1 and .2; I'd rather have another blue totem than the .3, but it does its job.

I have both the Z4 and WC Zero friends in 0.1 & 0.2. I agree the Z4 triggers feel squishy in those sizes but the overall experience is about tied with the WC ZF (which have a better trigger action) because the ZF use thinner cables and they like to flop to one side when you pull the trigger so they are a bit more annoying to place and clean.

I have neither whipped nor sat on any of them yet tho. If I had to choose one, I'd prob take the Z4 because the rigid-flex sleeve does make them easier to place, but I do love me the extendable slings and smoother trigger feel on the WC ZF. For now I'm happy having both, especially since if I'm placing anything that size (other than a black totem) while free climbing there's a good chance I will want to double them up.

The main reason I got the ZF and not the dragonflies was because the WC ZF have a larger camming angle (17.6 deg) than the dragonflies and Z4s (both 13.75 deg), giving them a larger range at the expense of some holding power, but the ZF used a softer alloy to partially account for this. With microcams, however, the failure mode is often due to the cam walking out of position and then being under-cammed so it blows during a fall, so having more range actually helps keep micro placements good if they move a little bit. 

For .2 and .3 I would really consider totems for micros I use the dragonfly’s I prefer them over the wild country’s, my friend has some and I just wasn’t really liking the design. First time I placed one I got it stuck for 10 minutes. On another note I just whipped 25 feet onto the yellow dragon fly and it held! I’d buy another set of dragonfly’s. ( I only have the three smallest sizes tho)

Erik Cwrote:

Trigger feel: .1 and .2 are very nice and smooth, the .3 is "sticky" or something. It has a pretty high force required to pull it initially and then the lobes jump straight to ~90 degrees, after which it's continuous, but stiff, to ~180 degrees. I only have a sample size of one, so I don't know if thats a consistent problem with the .3.

You’re not alone. From my amateur sleuthing skills, it seems for whatever reason the black sheath inside the metal sleeve rubs on the braided steel stem. Activating the lobes by hand is fine, as that sheath doesn’t have to move (the metal trigger wires only do)

0.1/0.2 action much better than z4 tho

Erik Cwrote:

I've got some experience with the zero friends (in sizes 0.1-0.3), they're my second set of cams (the first set is totems). I've only aided on the ZFs so far (I'll take them free climbing on sunday probably).

I did go free climbing with them yesterday; and while the trigger on the .3 may not feel great when I sit here in front of the computer and pull it, it's not something I notice/pay attention to when I place them when I'm leading and pumped.

Chris Fedorczakwrote:

They are definitely secure and would hold a fall, but the way the outside wires are oriented (the ones with the plastic shealths), you will destroy the cam if you fall on one in that orientation. I'd rather get a cam with a more flexible stem designed specifically for horizontals and only use my ULMCs in a pinch for those placements.

The trigger wires on the ULMCs are the same as the thumb-loop Mastercams', and folks have been using them without concern here in the Gunks - where 90+% of cam placements are in horizontals - since they first came out about 13 years ago.

Gunkiemikewrote:

The trigger wires on the ULMCs are the same as the thumb-loop Mastercams', and folks have been using them without concern here in the Gunks - where 90+% of cam placements are in horizontals - since they first came out about 13 years ago.

Are they falling on them in horizontals? Because if so, they will notice that the plastic sheaths around the cables gets messed up when they do. Metolius says that this piece cannot be replaced/serviced (I called to check), so the only option is to remove it or the broken plastic stealth can interfere with the trigger action (I have a cam this happened to). 

So, will the cam hold a fall in that orientation? Yes. Are they ideal for horizontals? No. Not IMHO. 

Chris Fedorczakwrote:

Are they falling on them in horizontals? Because if so, they will notice that the plastic sheaths around the cables gets messed up when they do. Metolius says that this piece cannot be replaced/serviced (I called to check), so the only option is to remove it or the broken plastic stealth can interfere with the trigger action (I have a cam this happened to). 

So, will the cam hold a fall in that orientation? Yes. Are they ideal for horizontals? No. Not IMHO. 

In my experience, there's a good amount of room between the cam head with the lobes and where the plastic sheaths and trigger wires begin. See below.

If I am making a horizontal placement, I do my best to make sure that in the event of a fall, the trigger housing and plastic sheaths are not loaded over an edge, usually it's pretty easy, unless the faces above and below the placement are offset or for some reason I have to place the cam deep into the rock. I picked up a green mastercam that has plastic sheaths that were brutalized in a fall. If this is a known "hazard," then don't put them in that situation.

I agree with Mike above, I had no problems using my mastercams in the Gunks in horizontal placements. I just chose placements that didn't load the trigger system in that manner.

If you have that specific placement criteria, just find another placement. I agree that in that specific situation, other cams might perform better, but I don't lose sleep over it. I like my Aliens for horizontal placements, and I can imagine that Totems would be champs. Personally, I think C3s are terrible at horizontal placements, X4s are fine (but they're shitty cams), C4s are fine, from a glance I bet Z4s are a cross between Aliens and C4s.

I got to place a whackton of 0.1, 0.2 and 0.3 cams on some thin cracks at Frenchman Coulee this weekend (including Totems). For horizontals, obviously the Totems feel great, and the WC Zero Friends feel like burlier aliens with their all-metal construction so I had no concerns about the ZFs rubbing on edges. For vertical cracks, I found the Z4s a bit easier to place than the WC ZFs because the rigid-flex system does what it's supposed to and stiffens up the Z4s. I love me the black and blue Totems but in really narrow cracks it can be hard to see the cam lobes because there is so much going on with all the wires that it was sometimes hard to visually confirm that the lobes were properly cammed, whereas the Z4's and ZF's were easier to see. That said, Totems still feel the most bomber, but I was more than happy with 0.1 & 0.2 placements on lead with both the Z4 and ZF. 

I just got the #1 Dragonfly in and it's exactly what I'm looking for. Would highly recommend for this specific application.