Why climb with a 70 meter in the Gunks?

A 60 meter is fine. I climbed on 60 meter doubles for a long time and really liked that too. But I've found a 70 comes in handy just enough to make me happy that I now carry it around. 

And when I carry my 700 meter rope I'm able to rappel from Fat City Direct all the way down to the Brauhaus, which is really convenient. 

SethGwrote:

A 60 meter is fine. I climbed on 60 meter doubles for a long time and really liked that too. But I've found a 70 comes in handy just enough to make me happy that I now carry it around. 

And when I carry my 700 meter rope I'm able to rappel from Fat City Direct all the way down to the Brauhaus, which is really convenient. 

Yeah, but then you have to wait several hours to get a table, which defeats the purpose of that speedy rappel. ;)

Josh Squirewrote:

Yeah, but then you have to wait several hours to get a table, which defeats the purpose of that speedy rappel. ;)

Last fall I was behind a party heading down the High E rap and they called in a Brauhaus order from the GT ledge. Great idea, though I bet they still had to wait for their order. 

80m is the new 70 gents. 

4 pages of replies. Isn’t there some sort of stereotype about opinionated New Yorkers?

lucanderwrote:

4 pages of replies. Isn’t there some sort of stereotype about opinionated New Yorkers?

Everyone is opininated, its just that NYers make the most opinionated noise 

JayLwrote:

80m is the new 70 gents. 

I climb on an 8.8 85m just sayin

you guys have no idea what internet opinions can be until you've read an oil thread on a motorcycle forum. 

Sean Sullivanwrote:

Hey all,

A friend of mine is purchasing a new rope and is planning on getting a 60 meter as he would be exclusively climbing in the Gunks. Is there an argument for purchasing a 70 meter for the Gunks? What can you do with a 70 that you can't do with a 60? I'm looking for specific examples. The only one that comes to mind is you'd be able to link pitches (like doing Bonnie's Direct as a single pitch).

Thanks,

Sean

There's nothing that a 60m rope can do that a 70m rope can't. There are things that a 70m rope can do that a 60m rope can't. This isn't a remote alpine area: the weight and time downside of an extra 10m of rope just aren't that important. It costs a bit more in the short run, but it probably lasts longer (in that you can cut the ends and keep using it longer). No one ever rapped or got lowered off the end of their rope because it was too long. I have both lengths of rope, and I almost never bring out the 60m.

Probably 1 in 3 times I go to Son of Easy O these days, I have to go elsewhere because some gumby is having an epic trying to get down with a 60m rope. It's not actually hard to do (just rap down the left side instead of rapping into space) but it's certainly faster to get down with a 70m and I've only ever seen one person with a 60m not screw it up.

Chris Topherwrote:

If you eventually have to cut your ends, you wont be short on a lot of stuff. You can also rap horsemen with a 70m, not advised to with a 60...

Rapping Horseman is not advised with any length of rope. There's no reason to drop a rope over one of the most popular 5.5s and into the busiest part of the carriage road when the walkoff is that easy.

David Kwrote:

Rapping Horseman is not advised with any length of rope. There's no reason to drop a rope over one of the most popular 5.5s and into the busiest part of the carriage road when the walkoff is that easy.

David -  it's actually totally preferred to rap on weeknight at 8pm in the dark with only one headlamp, than walking off. When there is exactly 0 people below you or on the carriage road. 

Yes but with an 80 you can have a rope up on two side by side routes at once. Try that with a 60.

Chris Topherwrote:

David -  it's actually totally preferred to rap on weeknight at 8pm in the dark with only one headlamp, than walking off. When there is exactly 0 people below you or on the carriage road. 

Chris, it's actually totally preferred to have one working headlamp per person and to leave the preserve before it closes at sunset. And if you're there, other people are probably there. But that's just trolling. ;P

You didn't mention dark, headlamp shortages, or any other mitigating factors which might cause rapping Horseman to be a good idea when you mentioned rapping Horseman, but if you want to pretend that's what you meant all along, fine. But, let's not pretend that's any sort of correction to what I said, it's just an exception to the rule. Rapping Horseman is a bad idea, and I don't think you actually disagree with that fact.

David Kwrote:

Chris, it's actually totally preferred to have one working headlamp per person and to leave the preserve before it closes at sunset. And if you're there, other people are probably there. But that's just trolling. ;P

You didn't mention dark, headlamp shortages, or any other mitigating factors which might cause rapping Horseman to be a good idea when you mentioned rapping Horseman, but if you want to pretend that's what you meant all along, fine. But, let's not pretend that's any sort of correction to what I said, it's just an exception to the rule. Rapping Horseman is a bad idea, and I don't think you actually disagree with that fact.

The traditional rap goes off a tree to the left and doesn't interfere with the route at all.

But last time I was up there someone chopped the tat. If the tat is still gone then yes definitely walk off.

But if the tat is back on the same tree to the left I see no reason to chide people for rapping there. It doesn't interfere with Horseman at all.

SethGwrote:

The traditional rap goes off a tree to the left and doesn't interfere with the route at all.

But last time I was up there someone chopped the tat. If the tat is still gone then yes definitely walk off.

But if the tat is back on the same tree to the left I see no reason to chide people for rapping there. It doesn't interfere with Horseman at all.

Took the words right out of my mouth - no interference with the route. And if you rap on a 60, you won't hit anyone on the road below, since the rope ends will be about 8 feet off the ground.

David Kwrote:

There's nothing that a 60m rope can do that a 70m rope can't. There are things that a 70m rope can do that a 60m rope can't. This isn't a remote alpine area: the weight and time downside of an extra 10m of rope just aren't that important. It costs a bit more in the short run, but it probably lasts longer (in that you can cut the ends and keep using it longer). No one ever rapped or got lowered off the end of their rope because it was too long. I have both lengths of rope, and I almost never bring out the 60m.

Probably 1 in 3 times I go to Son of Easy O these days, I have to go elsewhere because some gumby is having an epic trying to get down with a 60m rope. It's not actually hard to do (just rap down the left side instead of rapping into space) but it's certainly faster to get down with a 70m and I've only ever seen one person with a 60m not screw it up.

“You cut the rope too short!" Dagwood responds, "That's no problem. If you cut the rope too short, you can always splice it. If you cut the rope too long, though, there's nothing you can do about it."

I was going back and forth about mentioning it, but I’ve done that Horseman rap with at least two different 60M ropes and they reached with stretch, no problem. I hesitate to recommend it, for obvious reasons. Please be careful if you want to rap there with a 60.

Gunkiemikewrote:

Took the words right out of my mouth - no interference with the route. And if you rap on a 60, you won't hit anyone on the road below, since the rope ends will be about 8 feet off the ground.

Well actually "you" WILL hit someone on the road.  How many people are pontificating that its acceptable to rap off of Horseman because they actually have no idea how to walk off?

Eric Engbergwrote:

Well actually "you" WILL hit someone on the road.  How many people are pontificating that its acceptable to rap off of Horseman because they actually have no idea how to walk off?

People really like to argue, I guess. I can assure you that both Mike and I are very familiar with walking off. I only spoke up because what David said about the Horseman rap was inaccurate. And I don't think it is unacceptable to rap there. I would wager that 99 % of the people who climb Horseman (or top out on Apoplexy) do that rap. I've seen a bajillion raps there and never once have I seen a person standing in the carriage road get creamed by a rope. There are MANY instances in which I think it is better to walk off than rap. I just don't think this is necessarily one of them. 

There might be a good environmental reason to walk off rather than rap. It might save the tree over the long haul. But walking off also has negative impacts on the clifftop, so this is a tradeoff that is unclear, to my mind. It isn't obviously preferable.

Horsemen?

Just couldn't not drop the Zoolander...actually, I don't care. Seth's post about trade-offs is good to think about. 

I also liked the suggestion for using an 80 m to climb two pitches at the same time. Probably not the best way to make friends at the cliff, though.

What was this topic about again?