New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #15

Lori, I never listen to music or much of anything (people) when I'm performing. I listen before & after but need to hear myself when I'm on. When I used to work out I would listen to Billy Cobham, Hendrix, or something to put me in a good place. When I used to go to the climbing gym here in town they would put " Is you is or is you ain't my baby" on as I put my shoes on. I have never taken climbing very serious, but I still want a clear head, I climb because I like to, because I like being outside. 

A couple of days ago at spring training, the Dodgers pitcher threw the first inning with one eye closed! 

Lori Milas wrote:

They might bristle Sam... but “it is what it is.”  The truthful history of this place is of mostly (all?) white dudes goofing around in the desert.  As for privileged, I don’t know about that.  As far as I can tell some of these young climbers broke with their families and future college etc to pursue a dream,  don’t know how many had means, or even a car.  

I know today “I” have privilege relative to my friends and family and this dirtbagish dream can only happen when lots of help comes with it. I don’t forget that for one second.  This is no longer a cut-school and camp here sport.  

I don’t mean to go off on a rant but I don’t think I have an ax to grind.  When I have mentioned that I don’t see a lot of female climbers in this place it has been taken in a pc way.  I’m just looking at numbers with curiosity.

Anyway a bunch of white guys came here and did some spectacular climbing. Some others were surfing or skiing with the same intensity.  Without judgment I just want the history.  

Re. 'what happened" to these people from past eras. I'm guessing you're reading too much drama into, it, Lori. People move on. People get tired of things that once thrilled them. As you know all too well, people have kids, start businesses, etc. Even Lynn and John got real jobs and moved on in life, both to marriages, parenthood, careers, etc. The only person I know who says he won't ever climb in J-tree again was basically run off for illegal guiding there and is a known crank. I ain't naming names but half the forum knows who I'm talking about.

When it comes to your observation about not seeing women, I didn't see that as a PC or identity politics thing at all. I was just curious because it doesn't map with my experience very well. But that could also be that I'm a weekend warrior at J-tree and we literally see different crowds. And, also, I have women climbing partners, which definitely changes the ratio. 

Lori, Senor Arroz has it right.  People just grew up and moved on.  Some of us kept climbing, some had kids or got wrapped up in careers.  The competitiveness is what drove the standards up so far and fast.  If you weren't driven back then you probably weren't a climber.  It wasn't the safe sport that it is now days and you needed to be able to handle the risk or you went home.  Lots of people came and went and most never got above 5.8 or 9 and eventually got scared or moved on with life.  Only the freaks stayed and kept pushing.  Most of those were NOT destitude and had cars but did live meagerly and devoted ALL spare time to training and climbing.  If you didn't then you fell behind and might as well go find a new crew to hang with.

By the way, I am 5' 3" and never had any trouble doing the start to CS Special. Like everyone says, stem under you to gain enough height to get that first good hold then keep the stem to bring the other hand up.  You can do the 5.8 on the left side of that block to get to the top and TR.  it is a bit interesting too.

You should put Slim Pickings on Cap Rock to your list of Hauser routes to lead.  Of if you want to get a little scared, try The Terminator there that Herb and I put up.  And of course the classic on Cap Rock is Catch a Falling Star, named so because Herb fell off it when putting it up.

Andrew Rice wrote:

Re. 'what happened" to these people from past eras. I'm guessing you're reading too much drama into, it, Lori. People move on. People get tired of things that once thrilled them. As you know all too well, people have kids, start businesses, etc. Even Lynn and John got real jobs and moved on in life, both to marriages, parenthood, careers, etc. The only person I know who says he won't ever climb in J-tree again was basically run off for illegal guiding there and is a known crank. I ain't naming names but half the forum knows who I'm talking about.

When it comes to your observation about not seeing women, I didn't see that as a PC or identity politics thing at all. I was just curious because it doesn't map with my experience very well. But that could also be that I'm a weekend warrior at J-tree and we literally see different crowds. And, also, I have women climbing partners, which definitely changes the ratio. 

Thanks for this, Senor.  

I guess I’m pretty starstruck and it’s interesting how things are unfolding here.  The first two years climbing in Joshua Tree (on my infrequent trips) I was just trying to get my bearings.  Like...harness, ropes, rocks.  It never occurred to me to ask what came before.  Strange I could have gone out with Bob and never wondered who he was or what his history might be.  He was just “Bob”... a good instructor.

But stepping onto Loose Lady for the first time and asking “Who’s Houser?” started a new ball rolling.  Recognizing lines and styles and bolting has become part of climbing for me, and occasionally asking “Who the HELL thought of this?” Or “Who’s the poodle guy?”  I’m admiring the machismo and skill and daring that has gone into some of these routes.  And now I want stories and history.  All in fun... but also I think this place deserves it before all memories are gone. 

Kristian Solem wrote:

The relative scarcity of black climbers is an interesting and complicated issue. I spent some time with an “Afro-American,” as she liked to be called, climber. Among many things, she went on to become the first black woman to climb El Cap, finishing Lurking Fear in a shave over their 24 hour goal.

One of her thoughts is that it hasn’t really been very long since the days when good things didn’t happen to black people in the woods. The life span of one person reaching 80 puts you back to the time when, in southern states, woe be it for a black man who was seen to look at a white woman improperly. The KKK was mainstream and killing blacks was a sport. And it usually happened in the woods. A stretch? She convinced me otherwise.

Her regular job was to take groups of inner-city kids out in the wilderness. She told me that skittish feeling was there among some of the kids. They didn’t feel like they were in a good place, even though they were.

Is it a cultural thing? Look at music. How many Black groups are doing songs about the Grand Canyon? As this collective memory fades into the past things will change.

Excellent points, Kristian. 

We always wondered how Catch a Falling Star got its name. It is definitely a classic. The last time we climbed it I was with a 19 year old kid  who had not led much trad until that trip. He was kinda unnerved by the traversyness of the route and it did not make it any better when a huge busload of Asian tourists filed out of the bus and took up positions right underneath him snapping photos as quickly as they could work their cameras.

Wow. This story is taking some unexpected turns. Thank you so much for indulging me.  I can understand people growing up and moving on but it sounds actually that it just became not fun anymore.  

For comparison can anyone share if the circumstances and vibe in other climbing meccas were similar to those Jan and Kristian described for climbers in Joshua Tree?  If Rgold is reading, was it similar in the Gunks?  El dorado?  I’m guessing Yosemite earlier climbing would be the same.  Tahquitz part and parcel of Joshua Tree.  Same cutthroat spirit?  Same danger and competitiveness?  

Someone thousands of posts ago said that most climbers typically quit after 4 or 5 years and it is with some wistfulness that I expect this is true.  I even factored that into my move here—I could just be done one day. Of course climbers grow up, move on and maybe just get bored.  I’ve already met a few here who moved here to climb, got tired of it and never went back.

Lori Milas wrote:

For comparison can anyone share if the circumstances and vibe in other climbing meccas were similar to those Jan and Kristian described for climbers in Joshua Tree?  If Rgold is reading, was it similar in the Gunks?  El dorado?  I’m guessing Yosemite earlier climbing would be the same.  Tahquitz part and parcel of Joshua Tree.  Same cutthroat spirit?  Same danger and competitiveness?  

Lori, there are many books out there about climbing history in different areas if you are so inclined. 

If you can get your hands on this out of print book, it's excellent. Perhaps someone has a copy they could loan you? There's a few prominent names in there you'd recognize (Pat Ament for one). It provides some great perspective on Colorado climbing over multiple decades. https://www.amazon.com/Climb-History-Rock-Climbing-Colorado/dp/B008SLDNQG 

I enjoyed reading Steve Roper's book about the early days in Yosemite: https://www.amazon.com/Camp-4-Recollections-Yosemite-Rockclimber/dp/0898865875

Many years ago I was a member of a climbing-focused book club. We read some really outstanding books that I would not otherwise have heard of. The Camp 4 Roper book was the 1st one we read together. As with most book clubs, it gradually faded into more beer drinking/socializing and less discussion about the books and then kind of petered out, but it was really fun while it lasted!

No music for outside stuff. I like the sound of outside when I'm out.

In the car, or the house? I just pop up contemporary music radio station. Crank it way, way up for certain songs so I can get the good ear where it's supposed to be for my age group, lol! Bounce around, make the Fitbit think I'm racking up footsteps....

It is fun when I see a doubletake from kids way way way younger, when they see who's got THEIR music blasting away at the stop light. 

Best, Helen

I quizzed the little kid at the grocery store chekout today. asked him what band was playing. He didn't even hesitate. Earth Wind and Fire.  I was impressed. 

Nick Goldsmith wrote:

I quizzed the little kid at the grocery store chekout today. asked him what band was playing. He didn't even hesitate. Earth Wind and Fire.  I was impressed. 

Interesting that the younger kids I meet today REALLY want to know about that period of time and the music. Mention Zep, Who, Joplin, Pink Floyd and inevitably “You were THERE?”  I always ask them what they’re listening to.  With rare exception I like it.  I never wanted to be that person for whom time stopped at the end of my era and no good thing ever happened after that.

OMGoodness, Grain Surgery might be on the menu tomorrow.  I have not been out that way yet.  

Lori Milas wrote:

Kinda bummed about this: I think the CS Special route goes permanently off my list.

Funny I was going to ask today whether Houser routes were only slab. Was there ever upper body muscular moves? So the CS Special route and the adjacent route put up by Bob are beautiful friction slab... until you walk up to it and ask yourself how one gets on to the wall.  I stared at this thing from every angle until I realized they actually intend a Boulder move. Do we have no Plan B?

The roof is 7 feet from the ground. I am 5’8”.  The first handhold is a sloper. The first decent foot/hand is another foot higher.  It would take some real power just to get onto the face and then some to get settled onto the route.  I concluded its impossible.  

On the up side I took another look at RFYL up close, and glad I did. If I have the route correct I can do it. Big sigh of relief. It can stay on the list.

Second COVID shot today.  Who else?

Hey Lori!  As to CS Special, I always thought Axe of Dog was as good.  If you have been going through the grades you possibly have already done it.  If not it's not far left of CS.

It's waiting for you... 

Greg Opland wrote:

It's waiting for you... 

It is the most majestic, compelling rock in the park.  I'm really looking forward to it.  Thank you for posting! 

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What is everyone climbing these days, or doing (if not climbing?)  Are you training? Laying low?  Busy elsewhere?  What are you planning on climbing this season? Pictures would be great!! 

I'm still mulling over the great input and words of Jan, Kristian and others about how it was here in the Wild West.  What I'm experiencing here is certainly not in the same universe as what was going on decades ago ... the hard-driving, competitive and rough climbing here in Joshua Tree.  I've been struggling with my lack of interest or desire in leading, mainly because I am so drawn to amazingly beautiful and difficult routes that I could never climb on lead.  And I want safety.  Am constantly having this conversation in my head.    

Maybe, even though I'm a senior, I represent a new generation of climbers who look at it differently.  I have to take a sober look at my own strengths and weaknesses every single day.  How to get the most bang out of every day... reach as far as I can, without ending it all with stupidity.  I don't get off on high-risk. Would prefer not to bust an ankle, or my brain.  But I do like high-fun and big physical/emotional challenges.  "Know thyself" seems a good mantra here.   Where are you guys with this?

I'm sure that making climbing accessible to some of us makes it laughable to others who thrived on danger and self-sufficiency.  

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We had planned to climb on the Sentinel yesterday, but no place for pro/anchor at that spot.  So... gazing across the valley, thought we might head over to the Great Burrito, finally.  Just before the great Burrito is The Taco.    The Taco looked good enough, considering I was already tired.  The climbing was hard, for me, but fun with so much to work with.  At one point I was deep into a crevice/chimney and NOT feeling claustrophobic... so nice to see! 

I REALLY wanted to finally do a heel-hook, one-legged bat hang, just like Adam Ondra, along with rebel yell.  Chris already knew it was never gonna happen, but allowed me the fun of trying.  I blamed the rope for shutting me down.  And wrong rock.  I mean... this is the perfect place to let your alter-ego out and (pretend) to do the impossible.     

Bouldering a little bit, working hard on the yard. As usual, no plans other than to spend June - August somewhere in the west climbing or whatever, then on to Toulumne & the eastside till it snows. Out with a couple of young friends a few days ago.

But mostly fixing the tractor

I've been fighting knee problems for the last 6 months but finally have it figured out and am really close to 100%.  I've been hiking a lot the last few years.  I mostly quit climbing after last summer since the pain in my shoulders got so bad that the wife was compaining about me moaning too much of the time.  45 years of climbing takes a toll, especially climbing 5.12 with Mr. Rock all thru my 50s, and bouldering twice a week.  Looking forward to spending some quality time wandering thru the high country again this summer.  And Keesee and I will need to do another fly fishing adventure some where.  We had a blast spending two weeks in Idaho last summer so a repeat seems pretty mandatory.  I will probably start bouldering some as soon as daylight savings starts again.  I need the fitness if nothing else.

Jan Mc wrote:

I've been fighting knee problems for the last 6 months but finally have it figured out and am really close to 100%.  I've been hiking a lot the last few years.  I mostly quit climbing after last summer since the pain in my shoulders got so bad that the wife was compaining about me moaning too much of the time.  45 years of climbing takes a toll, especially climbing 5.12 with Mr. Rock all thru my 50s, and bouldering twice a week.  Looking forward to spending some quality time wandering thru the high country again this summer.  And Keesee and I will need to do another fly fishing adventure some where.  We had a blast spending two weeks in Idaho last summer so a repeat seems pretty mandatory.  I will probably start bouldering some as soon as daylight savings starts again.  I need the fitness if nothing else.

I've only been climbing 9 years and am only 59 but I'm finding bouldering hard these days. I still do it but only up to about V3 but am leaning more towards top roping sports and trad. Bouldering is just so intense. Climbing up to 4 or 5 days a week lately as I'm making the most of the last of the nice weather as we move in to autumn and I need to get fit and strong for my month long trip in April... 

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/117102451/el-pescador

Lori don’t sweat your time in Josh, (cause you missed it) for you it’s right now.

Some of US just don’t like to go back to a place completely over run by aggressive LEO Rangers, hopeless camping scene etc.

What did it for me was having this Ranger Lady roll up on me and friends, eating lunch in our campsite, with her handgun drawn and ready to go. WTF???? I also don’t go to Red Rocks because it’s all FUBAR.

So now I like to spend my time at more casual spots. There are so many other good places to climb at. Fish Creek fits the bill, and about 25 other spots I frequent.

Climbing plans..... 

I started working on El Pescador a while ago, Bill kindly gave me credit “for helping” - he knows how to motivate me- and said “you lead - it I’ll change it”..... 

I also hope to go on another great FF trip with Jan. He also knows how to motivate me.... at the end of a day fishing he will ask me “how many?”.
My answer is usually 18, maybe 25... he’ll go 135! And show me a little grin. .... as he mixes up killer Margaritas.

By for now.... 

Lori Milas wrote:

What is everyone climbing these days, or doing (if not climbing?)  Are you training? Laying low?  Busy elsewhere?  What are you planning on climbing this season? Pictures would be great!! 

I don't have any pictures (I'll take some om the weekend maybe) but I've been concentrating on roped climbing. Consistently climbing 18s, 19s, 20s, 21s in the gym on TR two or three days a week. Also getting my trad head on again in readiness for my month long trip in April. This week I climbed Tues and now climbing again tonight (Thurs - bouldering indoors) then top roping tomorrow night outdoors, top roping indoors Saturday (rain is forecast) and some trad and top roping Sunday.

I've been checking out the guide to Mount Rosea where we'll be heading as well as Mount Arapiles and Hollow Mountain area. It seems a little sketchy, with almost every route coming with some sort of warning about loose blocks, scrubby pitches, route reading, dead trees etc. Many routes were established at about the time I was born and there doesn't seem to be a lot of activity there.  It'll be interesting   

https://www.thecrag.com/en/climbing/australia/grampians/mt-rosea

Lori Milas wrote:

What is everyone climbing these days, or doing (if not climbing?)  Are you training? Laying low?  Busy elsewhere?  What are you planning on climbing this season? Pictures would be great!! 

I REALLY wanted to finally do a heel-hook, one-legged bat hang, just like Adam Ondra, along with rebel yell.  Chris already knew it was never gonna happen, but allowed me the fun of trying.  I blamed the rope for shutting me down.  And wrong rock.  I mean... this is the perfect place to let your alter-ego out and (pretend) to do the impossible.     

(Sorry for the choppy edit of your post!)

BUT LORI!! Will Ondra be able to do such a pretty, stemmy, sorta jammin a crack thingy FORTY YEARS FROM NOW????!?

Well okay, yes, probably, but will you and I care what that pipSQUEAK is doing when we're crushing centenarians? 

Uh. Something like that...

Did someone say heel hook???

This lovely piece of eye candy is what I've been doing lately! My "project!" *

That's my dear friend Fritz. A few of you met him at City last season. He went through the wringer and back this winter, and then some. He pretty much lost everything.

So?

I've had the huge joy of facilitating the kindness of others, to help him out. All that's in it's own thread.

But that heel hook! He half joked that move, hamming up the difficulty, and I made him go again, so I could take a pic. That's actually one of my favorite climbing pics. 

It isn't staged, except for the pause to let me grab my phone. If memory serves, he is on Poking Holes in the Firmament, at COR. It is easy, but fun! I've led it, and climbed a number of times, so I defer to new people. With so little on his harness, I think the person belaying him (my main climbing partner Paul) probably led it, I either climbed and unclipped the draws, or, they left the draws and pulled the rope.

At any rate, Fritz led it barefoot. He is at bolt two or three, I was up far enough to get a nice shot! There's a kinda chasm between the climb, and where you belay. The first bolt is the intimidating bit, after that, it's a cruise! A pretty line, too.

Other than helping Fritz get back on his feet, I'm doing lots of cooking just lately. Trying to get in better shape, lose some weight, and that means cook at home, and don't eat nonstop while binging Netflix or some such.

So, I bought some meal prep cookbooks, and I'm trying new-to-me recipes. Some, meh, some, holy crap this is good, lol, but all good enough. Portioning those out and putting them in the freezer.

My favorites so far, are a french dip/grilled cheese sandwich, and lemon/blueberry baked oatmeal. The oatmeal is vastly tastier than a commercial scone or muffin, and much, much healthier, too. Win, win!

Not much climbing lately, inside or out. I'm not sure why, either. It will get rolling again, soon enough, I expect.

Sounds like lots of fun stuff going on out there, have fun, all!

H.

EDIT to add: *a wee bit, um, tongue in cheek? 

Some kids are born to us, some just... happen. He's a super guy, and a great friend!