Ibuprofen use

The silver bullet for short term inflammation is ICE ICE BABY.  I have IBS, which is the long term version of inflammation, and really sucks.  Trying to mitigate it with diet, right now. My biopsy was negative for Celiac, and I don't have Crohn's. Just sticking to the low FODMAP diet is all I can do. But I think it has something to do with all the NSAIDS I have eaten over the last 30 years. 

I was like a lot of people in the 80's-90's and ate TON'S of Motrin, because I was in a lot of pain from military training. I stopped recently when one of my friends who is a research PhD told me about the liver and renal damage I was doing to myself.

Just now recovering from a 5-6 year bout with gastritis caused by over-use of NSAIDs.  I second the recommendation to try ice first.  Wish I had.

I worked in endoscopy for 5 years, the amount of damage done from Motrin on the gastric lining was so common.  Ulcers, bleeds, irritation that caused nausea and weight loss from not eating enough.  Scary to throw up some blood.  I think NSAIDs do play a role in what we do, but the decision just needs to be done with caution.  If I go on 3 day climbing trip when we do multiple sessions a day to get in as much as we can (its an 11 hr drive) I will use NSAIDs as I am planning on destroying my body for 72 hrs.  Drugs simply dont solve out problems though.  Staying away from processed foods which trigger the inflammatory process is a bigger part IMO.

I was "in endoscopy" for 5 years as well, but on the receiving end!  Nausea and weight loss were my main issues.  Though I liked being down near my optimal sending weight, I was physically weaker.  My taste in food has changed.  Used to enjoy spicy food (not vindaloo level but close).  Now: can't use much garlic or fresh peppers in my cooking.  Popping a chipotle into the sauce is right out.  Just can't stomach it anymore -- so I guess I'm still on the gastritis spectrum.

from PubMed:

Turmeric, a spice that has long been recognized for its medicinal properties, has received interest from both the medical/scientific world and from culinary enthusiasts, as it is the major source of the polyphenol curcumin. It aids in the management of oxidative and inflammatory conditions, metabolic syndrome, arthritis, anxiety, and hyperlipidemia. It may also help in the management of exercise-induced inflammation and muscle soreness, thus enhancing recovery and performance in active people. In addition, a relatively low dose of the complex can provide health benefits for people that do not have diagnosed health conditions. Most of these benefits can be attributed to its antioxidant and anti-inflammatory effects. Ingesting curcumin by itself does not lead to the associated health benefits due to its poor bioavailability, which appears to be primarily due to poor absorption, rapid metabolism, and rapid elimination. There are several components that can increase bioavailability. For example, piperine is the major active component of black pepper and, when combined in a complex with curcumin, has been shown to increase bioavailability by 2000%. Curcumin combined with enhancing agents provides multiple health benefits. The purpose of this review is to provide a brief overview of the plethora of research regarding the health benefits of curcumin.

After a motorcycle accident I thought this stuff worked as good, if not better than ibuprofen on my tendon issues. I still use it, worth a shot imo, just wanted to share

Tumeric has to be taken in such quantities that it's not realistic to see much effect from using it in doses people normally do. Also there's the problem of lead (chromate) added to tumeric;  used to get a brighter orange color. So if you wanna megadose of tumeric, be my guess but I'm not going to. 

You dont need mega doses of turmeric, you just need to take it with piperine, from black pepper, in order to enhance absorption.  

The dose is ~ one gram of curcumin per day. Curcumin is the active ingredient in tumeric we're interested here in this discussion. But tumeric is made up of only 3% curcumin, so have fun ingesting 33 grams of tumeric/day along with all that black pepper. Curcumin capsules are a thing. An expensive thing, and one where the potency and purity aren't exactly tested that well - so who knows what you're getting. I bet someone here has tumeric capsules they paid handsomely here that's just that: tumeric and not a curcumin extract.

Long Ranger - post up some sources - yours are the most useless bro-science nonsense posts in an otherwise useful if not important thread.  Curcumin has been around a long time and is very well established and accepted.  Suggest anyone using Ibuprofen regularly read up.

I'd like to +1 what Auden said. This is true for any sport (maybe even for life in general, and our tendancies to medicate symptoms, more so than causes, as a way to deal with health issues).

See pain as accountability for you & your body. To me, taking Ibu (or painkillers in general) before an activity is akin to removing any ability for yourself to know how much money you still have in the bank just before leaving on a trip. Accountability is good. Paying attention to pain can allow you to determine what conditions improves/degrades the symptoms, and solve your issues. It can also prevent you from pushing too far and turning an inconvenience into a more limiting injury. If all else fails, and you get injured & end up seeking helps (PT etc.), then you'll have much more of a injury history to tell, which makes it more likely the intervention will actually help.

If you do nothing else, I'd suggest not taking painkillers before climbing.

Bill Schickwrote:

Long Ranger - post up some sources - yours are the most useless bro-science nonsense posts in an otherwise useful if not important thread.  Curcumin has been around a long time and is very well established and accepted.  Suggest anyone using Ibuprofen regularly read up.

Bro Science? I'm saying don't take an expensive, unregulated chemical with dubious health benefits just because it's the hot new thing and you want to believe in it. There aren't any hard sources that it does anything to actually help with pain and inflammation. The studies found are pretty flimsy and need a lot more additional studies. It's all folk medicine at this point. You can Google the recalls about lead additives yourself. If you want to spend your money on it, go ahead.

And I have certainly not said take Ibuprofen - my posts have said the opposite and contrary to labeling me Bro Science, my posts are pretty basic, level-headed advice Bill. In fact, my entire history of posting about taking supplements in this forum is to don't and to instead focus on a better diet. If there's push back from that, it's because y'all want a biohack which I'm sorry don't exist.

Sorry if pain is painful everyone. Chronic pain sucks and the fact is there's no cure to it, save opioids, which come with some serious hazards, like addiction and death from overdosing related to addiction. Learn to live with the pain and adjust your lifestyle. Sorry to be that guy. Seek advice on physical therapy.

Long Ranger wrote:

Bro Science? I'm saying don't take an expensive, unregulated chemical with dubious health benefits just because it's the hot new thing and you want to believe in it. There aren't any hard sources that it does anything to actually help with pain and inflammation. The studies found are pretty flimsy and need a lot more additional studies. It's all folk medicine at this point. You can Google the recalls about lead additives yourself. If you want to spend your money on it, go ahead.

And I have certainly not said take Ibuprofen - my posts have said the opposite and contrary to labeling me Bro Science, my posts are pretty basic, level-headed advice Bill. In fact, my entire history of posting about taking supplements in this forum is to don't and to instead focus on a better diet. If there's push back from that, it's because y'all want a biohack which I'm sorry don't exist.

Sorry if pain is painful everyone. Chronic pain sucks and the fact is there's no cure to it, save opioids, which come with some serious hazards, like addiction and death from overdosing related to addiction. Learn to live with the pain and adjust your lifestyle. Sorry to be that guy. Seek advice on physical therapy.

Ice is the key for acute pain from working out. Use it, it works.

Long term vitamin I use will ruin your innards. I used Motrin almost daily for 20 years, maximum dose most times. I now suffer from a bunch of ailments related to that. Worst being chronic gastritis...nothing like being either constipated or having diarrhea all the time. 

BITD Motrin was considered a magic bullet. No warnings or anything about how it will ruin your liver or kidneys. I was given thousands of pills from my army Dr. for back pain. 

Long Rangerwrote:

There aren't any hard sources that it does anything to actually help with pain and inflammation. 

Did you finish high school?

Bill Schickwrote:

Did you finish high school?

If you want to debate the topic debate the topic. That doesn't require you attempting to attack me personally. Thanks Bill.

Buck Riowrote:

Ice is the key for acute pain from working out. Use it, it works.

It largely doesn't. It numbs the area short term, and causes your blood to become slow/sludgy, slowing down the healing process. Heat may be a better alt. RICE has been discounted by the very person who made it popular.

Long Rangerwrote:

It largely doesn't. It numbs the area short term, and causes your blood to become slow/sludgy, slowing down the healing process. Heat may be a better alt. RICE has been discounted by the very person who made it popular.

You're making quite a cut & dry claim there, that I do not think is back by a medical consensus. I think the best you could say that you can find advice for/against icing in different circumstances. Excessive inflammation can actually slow the healing process - there is advice for icing in that regard. Another point for ice you could find is that many discipline use ice bath to speed up recovery. I think that's still a debate whether or not it works, it seems it is slightlt beneficial, like say active recovery or massage etc.

I think you made sensible remarks above, but by making sweeping remarks like this, you kind open the door to the bro-science accusation.

Long Rangerwrote:

If you want to debate the topic debate the topic.

Not with someone who didn't finish high school.  Well?  And how about some sources?

Franck Veewrote:

You're making quite a cut & dry claim there, that I do not think is back by a medical consensus. I think the best you could say that you can find advice for/against icing in different circumstances. Excessive inflammation can actually slow the healing process - there is advice for icing in that regard. Another point for ice you could find is that many discipline use ice bath to speed up recovery. I think that's still a debate whether or not it works, it seems it is slightlt beneficial, like say active recovery or massage etc.

I think you made sensible remarks above, but by making sweeping remarks like this, you kind open the door to the bro-science accusation.

I think one thing that needs to be distinguished is recovery from an injury (such as a sprain) vs. recovery from a hard workout. Regarding the latter, everything I've heard recently is that ice is generally counter-productive to exercise recovery, actually inhibiting the muscle growth and adaptations that exercise is supposed to instigate. Regarding the former (icing for injury) I don't know.

I've heard good things about the book "Good to Go: What the Athlete in All of Us Can Learn from the Strange Science of Recovery" by Christie Aschwanden where she discusses various popular recovery methods, including ice baths. I haven't read the book but I did hear an interview with her on the podcast "The Real Science of Sport", which is a great podcast, highly recommended.

hifnowrote:

I think one thing that needs to be distinguished is recovery from an injury (such as a sprain) vs. recovery from a hard workout. Regarding the latter, everything I've heard recently is that ice is generally counter-productive to exercise recovery, actually inhibiting the muscle growth and adaptations that exercise is supposed to instigate. Regarding the former (icing for injury) I don't know.

I've heard good things about the book "Good to Go: What the Athlete in All of Us Can Learn from the Strange Science of Recovery" by Christie Aschwanden where she discusses various popular recovery methods, including ice baths. I haven't read the book but I did hear an interview with her on the podcast "The Real Science of Sport", which is a great podcast, highly recommended.

Yeah I've never used ice bath for recovery, even when training for competitive running. Mostly because coaches didn't push it. But I had friends training for biathlon on the junior team (canada). and they were using it as part of the plan. I'd be inclined to lend some credential, though I guess many professional teams before have used methods that turned out to be duds. It may also have to do with timing, perhaps soon after training is great/bad, or some time after, or only a recovery/slow days, etc.

Sounds like a good read, might just try to get my hands on it.

Physical Therapy in Sport
Volume 48, March 2021, Pages 177-187
A total of 32 RCTs involving 1098 patients were included
The current evidence indicated that the application of cold and heat therapy within 1 h after exercise could effectively reduce the pain degree of DOMS patients for 24 h cold water immersion and hot pack therapy, which had the best effect, could promote the recovery of DOMS patients. But more high-quality studies are needed to confirm whether cold or heat therapy work better.

No hard sources? here you go- Anti-inflammatory Properties of Curcumin, a Major Constituent of Curcuma longa: A Review of Preclinical and Clinical Research archive.foundationalmedicin… I'm just trying to provide you guys with some good info so you can make your own informed decisions, to each their own.