New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #15

Helen. Laura Sykes started drilling last summer but don't know if she has put up ant actual new routes or has just been retro bolting some of her husbands  older run out moderates?   Jeanie and Annie put up a few new routes in VT and pretty sure Jeannie hand drilled the bolts.    Isa has been in on  over 50 FA's and while I did all the drilling and most of the cleaning Isa was instrumental in freeing many of them and  certainly the key factor in freeing all the harder climbs.. ( harder is relative to my meager talents ;) )

that last shot of us with the  fall foliage and my red safety glasses was taken after we got the FFA of our new climb Soul Whisperer 10b 310ft   Isa celebrating her 50th birthday with the FA of  50 Lentze 10+

FrankPSwrote:

Kristian,

That's a Wired Bliss, even though the tag on the sling says "Metolius"? It looks just like my yellow Metolius Power Cam.

I had a Metolius looked liked that until I clumsily dropped it off of Traitor Horn

FrankPSwrote:

Kristian,

That's a Wired Bliss, even though the tag on the sling says "Metolius"? It looks just like my yellow Metolius Power Cam.

Coulda fooled me. Actually, it did fool me...

I had a red wired bliss for ages. Might still be somewhere in Isa's gear bin? 

Smaller one perhaps of a greater vintage.

Keep in mind both Metolious and Wired Bliss cams were designed by the same two people :) 

My oldest Metolious TCUs, from the 80s, had the color coded bit on the ends. Wired Bliss, so far as I know, never used the color coding stem wrap. However the earliest Metolious TCus weren't color coded either. Me and a buddy, we split camps - me a Metolious man and he a Wired Bliss devotee. They were hard to tell apart and I haven't seen his old wired bliss hardware in a very long time but pretty sure Wired Bliss had some teethy marks on the cams where as oldest Metolious were smooth faced cams per the above.

Metolious website tells the story of their design and shows the earliest prototypes, before U-stem was thought of, were obvious forerunners of Aliens et al. 

https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/metolius-origins.html

And these are Wired Bliss, photo lifted from this site actually.

FrankPSwrote:

Kristian,

That's a Wired Bliss, even though the tag on the sling says "Metolius"? It looks just like my yellow Metolius Power Cam.

Yeah, it looks just like the original Metolius TCUs I had.  Those were the first small camming devices I owned and I loved them.

Dallas Rwrote:

Or take a hike and rap Corona Arch...  

2013

Dallas

My grandkids are here for dinner. My daughter stated talking about her trip with me a long time ago out in Moab. She then mentioned seeing the Arches National Park and I pulled up this below.

Nancy, Greg, Jean and I did the hike and then rapped off of Corona Arch back in August of 2006 

Hiking up the throne of the Arch.

Coming down on the actual Arch. You can see Greg already at the rap station.

Greg and I on top and Jean is rappelling down.

John

Nice to see so many posts and so much conversation.  I love these pictures!  

My head is still on the last route I climbed, and the surprising leap in difficulty I experienced from the prior 10a to this 10b.  It makes me want to ask the question of you seasoned climbers about just how MUCH of a leap there is between grades?  And how do you prepare for that next grade--that next level of difficulty?  

I have climbed a few 10b's that were probably anomalies... maybe had one hard move on a basically easier route.  This route (Noriega Does Panama) was consistently hard every, single step. It was a short route, but sustained... and the difficulty was quite a shocker.

---------------

I know this is of interest to only a few here... but I continue to read up on diet for athletes, and especially older athletes.  I'm too wiped out after a day of climbing or hard hiking... I can see this fatigue and sometimes weakness progressing with long days of climbing, and I have sought advice from other climbers and athletes.   

(No one here is diabetic except me, but that has thrown a questionmark into my own research. How much of my own fatigue and loss of muscle is due to diabetes?  Finally I have talked with other diabetic athletes and gotten some answers: " What I did for marathon training was look at what professional marathoners (without T1D) did for nutrition and then found a way to make my T1D management fit that nutrition plan. This is as opposed to fitting your nutrition into diabetes. Your body doesn’t care if you have diabetes, all your muscles still work the same way.")

So, I'll be talking to a sport Registered Dietician soon.  With the above-mentioned climbing goals in mind, I know need a body that can get there without sacrificing general good health.    

I've been reading several books that might interest others... "Peak: The New Science of Athletic Performance That is Revolutionizing Sports"  that covers all aspects of health in sports.  The first chapter is on the science of sleep. The second chapter is on 'athletic biome'- diverse gut critters- which I had been reading about over the last few years.  And then, many chapters on nutrition.  

It seems pretty much accepted now that we need in the vicinity of 1.6 grams of protein for every Kilogram of body weight per day.  "The International Society of Sports Nutrition recommends a protein range of 1.6-2.0 kg though some studies show a benefit up to 2.2 gm/kg. It looks like 1.6g/kg/body weight is the sweet spot for protein intake... whatever dose you pick, be consistent and make sure you hit it every day.  Phillips research found older adults require more protein to reach the same muscle protein synthesis threshold compared to younger individuals"  

For me these are not just numbers but are probable solutions to the issues of muscle mass and endurance for aging adults. 

I'm also re-reading "Play On: The New Science of Elite Performance At Any Age" which does a thorough review of the training and diet for athletes as they age.

I do understand that the word 'athlete' singles out extremely active people who are sometimes training at elite levels.  I just want to take what I can and apply it here.  One thing for sure, I cannot be casual about my diet without paying dearly in fatigue and loss of strength (and will).      

I guess all of this together means I am questioning some of those 10d routes I want to climb one day... but at least want a shot at it with the right training and the right fuel. 

I turn 50 in 6 months. Am I allowed to post here, or should I wait for #16? Ha! 

Josh Squirewrote:

I turn 50 in 6 months. Am I allowed to post here, or should I wait for #16? Ha! 

You'll need to post a copy of your government-issued photo ID.

FrankPSwrote:

You'll need to post a copy of your government-issued photo ID.

What, so you can steal my identity?! I may be a young 49, but I wasn't born yesterday!

Josh Squirewrote:

I turn 50 in 6 months. Am I allowed to post here, or should I wait for #16? Ha! 

Does anyone have a copy of the 26 page Admission Application for Josh here?  

Yea Josh.  Maybe like the IRS says if you’re turning 50 THIS YEAR you’re in.  Welcome!  

Josh Squirewrote:

I turn 50 in 6 months. Am I allowed to post here, or should I wait for #16? Ha! 

Sure, if you'll convert Lori's protein stuff to the weight system used where I buy food??

And besides, if my ancient memory serves, wasn't an early one of these 49??

Best, Helen

Lori Milaswrote:

Nice to see so many posts and so much conversation.  I love these pictures!  

My head is still on the last route I climbed, and the surprising leap in difficulty I experienced from the prior 10a to this 10b.  It makes me want to ask the question of you seasoned climbers about just how MUCH of a leap there is between grades?  And how do you prepare for that next grade--that next level of difficulty?  

I have climbed a few 10b's that were probably anomalies... maybe had one hard move on a basically easier route.  This route (Noriega Does Panama) was consistently hard every, single step. It was a short route, but sustained... and the difficulty was quite a shocker.

---------------

I know this is of interest to only a few here... but I continue to read up on diet for athletes, and especially older athletes.  I'm too wiped out after a day of climbing or hard hiking... I can see this fatigue and sometimes weakness progressing with long days of climbing, and I have sought advice from other climbers and athletes.   

(No one here is diabetic except me, but that has thrown a questionmark into my own research. How much of my own fatigue and loss of muscle is due to diabetes?  Finally I have talked with other diabetic athletes and gotten some answers: " What I did for marathon training was look at what professional marathoners (without T1D) did for nutrition and then found a way to make my T1D management fit that nutrition plan. This is as opposed to fitting your nutrition into diabetes. Your body doesn’t care if you have diabetes, all your muscles still work the same way.")

So, I'll be talking to a sport Registered Dietician soon.  With the above-mentioned climbing goals in mind, I know need a body that can get there without sacrificing general good health.    

I've been reading several books that might interest others... "Peak: The New Science of Athletic Performance That is Revolutionizing Sports"  that covers all aspects of health in sports.  The first chapter is on the science of sleep. The second chapter is on 'athletic biome'- diverse gut critters- which I had been reading about over the last few years.  And then, many chapters on nutrition.  

It seems pretty much accepted now that we need in the vicinity of 1.6 grams of protein for every Kilogram of body weight per day.  "The International Society of Sports Nutrition recommends a protein range of 1.6-2.0 kg though some studies show a benefit up to 2.2 gm/kg. It looks like 1.6g/kg/body weight is the sweet spot for protein intake... whatever dose you pick, be consistent and make sure you hit it every day.  Phillips research found older adults require more protein to reach the same muscle protein synthesis threshold compared to younger individuals"  

For me these are not just numbers but are probable solutions to the issues of muscle mass and endurance for aging adults. 

I'm also re-reading "Play On: The New Science of Elite Performance At Any Age" which does a thorough review of the training and diet for athletes as they age.

I do understand that the word 'athlete' singles out extremely active people who are sometimes training at elite levels.  I just want to take what I can and apply it here.  One thing for sure, I cannot be casual about my diet without paying dearly in fatigue and loss of strength (and will).      

I guess all of this together means I am questioning some of those 10d routes I want to climb one day... but at least want a shot at it with the right training and the right fuel. 

I have also read those books and many more :)

I just finished re-reading Spring Chicken.  Which is a fascinating read but the only real take away advice = "move it or lose it"

I have also found numerous resources saying getting enough PRO is especially important to mastery athletes as we tend to under respond compared to our younger climbing partners.  And I don't think there is any doubt that some kind of strength training to fight off sarcopenia is critical.

Lori - Regarding grades- it’s not a linear system so don’t expect the difference between grades to be calibrated. It’s also subjective and routes might change over time. One of my favorite 5.9’s in Eldo is a classic 5.6! My understanding is routes are graded according to the hardest single move, so you could have a 1-move wonder that’s 5.11 where the bulk of the climbing is at 5.9. That route will probably feel easier than a sustained 5.11. Guidebook descriptions are helpful for that.

FA parties (in my experience) generally give a grade that they think is appropriate, but sometimes they may have worked the route a bunch so have the beta wired. They might ask some friends to climb it and see what they think. Over time, and after multiple ascents, the grade will settle in.

I generally expect the jump from 10a to 10b to be similar to the jump from 5.7 to 5.8. Curious what others think?

https://youtu.be/7utMaDb1W08

Nearby where I live.. Views are monetized for Bald Eagles. 

Thanks.

Erika and Lori, first of all, routes are not graded by the single hardest move, but aggregate difficulty. This is why a 100 foot route with continuous V2 to V3 movement will be .12+, as will a 30 foot route with a single V5/6 move. The grading scale is subjective, but it is also fairly linear. For example, a 5.13a climber will hardly be able to tell the difference between 11a, 11b and .11c, but the jump to .13b will feel significant and 13c will feel much harder than that. It has been my experience that this is the case across all grades. 

Ummmm, has anyone, anywhere, ever claimed Jtree is easy?? Isn't it pretty much stiff at any grade? Tres Plus Olde School??

And yeah, grades just give you approximations, to help judge what's what. Personally, I look at the year, and who put the thing up. Some people... well, some people are just scary, lol! 

I was on a 10 something locally my first year put. Fell on every bit of it (top rope follow, sorta), but, bolt to bolt I got there. Mainly because my son wouldn't lower me, lol! 

But you just never know. Literally every single place I've climbed so far, has been easier than my local crap, for me at least. And I'm not even started into for real crack climbing. 

Same on boulders. My coach two years ago was surprised at one or two I did, no problem. And, V easy peasy isn't at all a given for me. Based on how V grades are supposed to translate to YDS, I shouldn't be able to climb any rated problems at all. I suspect, on the "harder" than expected ones that my hand and foot size perhaps worked to my advantage? Or, one went at an angle, and probably favored my stronger side?

TLDR, just giving it a shot anyway, without paying attention to the grade at all, is the fun part of being on a top rope. I've climbed in complete ignorance of all beta, now and then, except it's there, and maybe that bit there, might just go. Hmmmm.

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/107179849/built-for-comfort

This was another example. A rope was up, so I gave the 10a a shot. Bailed partway up. But?

It's now a 5.9, lol! 

In the comments is an exchange between Bingham and I. Trust me, he is no softy! His, is one of the true badasses I cower in terror at, with his stuff from BITD, lol! 

Best, Helen

ErikaNWwrote:

Lori - Regarding grades- it’s not a linear system so don’t expect the difference between grades to be calibrated. It’s also subjective and routes might change over time. One of my favorite 5.9’s in Eldo is a classic 5.6! My understanding is routes are graded according to the hardest single move, so you could have a 1-move wonder that’s 5.11 where the bulk of the climbing is at 5.9. That route will probably feel easier than a sustained 5.11. Guidebook descriptions are helpful for that.

FA parties (in my experience) generally give a grade that they think is appropriate, but sometimes they may have worked the route a bunch so have the beta wired. They might ask some friends to climb it and see what they think. Over time, and after multiple ascents, the grade will settle in.

I generally expect the jump from 10a to 10b to be similar to the jump from 5.7 to 5.8. Curious what others think?

Agreeing with Erika. Grades are very incomplete and subjective assessments of difficulty I've floated up overhanging 5.11 and white-knuckled and knee-knocked my way up 5.5 slab. I've been shut down by a 5.7 in J-tree and then turned around and climbed a 5.10 right next to it. Climb ratings are like movie ratings. One movie gets an X for some tits and another movie is rated G but shows toys torturing each other brutally.