Bolting Top Down

Lauren Fallsoffrockswrote:

Additionally, if you are bolting a layback, put the bolt in the face *opposite* where your feet are pressing.

Good rule of thumb if both sides of the dihedral are vertical, but if not, bolt the wall that is vertical.  This will result in cleaner lead falls. 

I've been really picky in terms of cleaning the hole and have always used a hand pump that produces significantly more force than a bulb or lung power.  Depending on the rock type, I do 3 -5  cycles of brush/blow.  I'm really surprised that this approach isn't used by many who post their efforts.  I'm not being critical at all, just curious as to why?  If I can save effort and get the same result than great.    

link to the style of pump below just in case I'm not clear.   

https://www.fastenmsc.com/p-100605-powers-ac100-hand-pumpdust-blower-8280.aspx

BK Bundrenwrote:

I've been really picky in terms of cleaning the hole and have always used a hand pump that produces significantly more force than a bulb or lung power.  Depending on the rock type, I do 3 -5  cycles of brush/blow.  I'm really surprised that this approach isn't used by many who post their efforts.  I'm not being critical at all, just curious as to why?  If I can save effort and get the same result than great.    

link to the style of pump below just in case I'm not clear.   

https://www.fastenmsc.com/p-100605-powers-ac100-hand-pumpdust-blower-8280.aspx

I wonder the same thing. For anyone interested in a pump blower, the Redhead BP-10 is the same size as the Powers blower but only half as long so it’s less bulk on the harness and in the pack

BK Bundrenwrote:

I've been really picky in terms of cleaning the hole and have always used a hand pump that produces significantly more force than a bulb or lung power.  Depending on the rock type, I do 3 -5  cycles of brush/blow.  I'm really surprised that this approach isn't used by many who post their efforts.  I'm not being critical at all, just curious as to why?  If I can save effort and get the same result than great.    

link to the style of pump below just in case I'm not clear.   

https://www.fastenmsc.com/p-100605-powers-ac100-hand-pumpdust-blower-8280.aspx

I over drill the hole,blow, then brush (which will either push most the dust to he back of the hole or pull it out), blow, and brush. At this point I think the hole should be clean enough, if its not I would think most the dust is in the back of the hole not touching the bolt. Even if the hole isn't perfectly clean the bolt busters proved that dirty glue-in hole are still really strong. I don't worry that that much about it.

Secondly the pump is $23 more than a blow tube, I dont really see a great way to attach it to the harness, and I drop stuff all the time. There is also a certain power when you can say, "I blow rock climbs" that you don't get with the pump.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

I over drill the hole,blow, then brush (which will either push most the dust to he back of the hole or pull it out), blow, and brush. At this point I think the hole should be clean enough, if its not I would think most the dust is in the back of the hole not touching the bolt. Even if the hole isn't perfectly clean the bolt busters proved that dirty glue-in hole are still really strong. I don't worry that that much about it.

Secondly the pump is $23 more than a blow tube, I dont really see a great way to attach it to the harness, and I drop stuff all the time. There is also a certain power when you can say, "I blow rock climbs" that you don't get with the pump.

The Red Head pump has a small accessory cord hole, which makes it super easy to rack. I used a blow out tube for a couple years, then got the pump and 100% wish I had it from the beginning. Ever want to blow off the face after you drill, or that weird pocket that none of your brushes really fit in? Blow out pump is the shit for those.

It's also pretty easy to imagine how using a blow tube might expose you to a lot of additional nasty rock particulate matter. Leaving an N95 on while drilling and cleaning out holes will definitely save you $23 dollars worth of lung health when considered over the span of your bolting career.

Matthew Jaggerswrote:

The Red Head pump has a small accessory cord hole, which makes it super easy to rack. I used a blow out tube for a couple years, then got the pump and 100% wish I had it from the beginning. Ever want to blow off the face after you drill, or that weird pocket that none of your brushes really fit in? Blow out pump is the shit for those.

Leaf blower!

Trevor Taylorwrote:

Leaf blower!

One thing I've learned is to wear fucking googles. The first time I used a leaf blower I didn't think to seal my eyes and only had safety glasses on, definitely need all-around protection.

Try closing your eyes next time!

Trevor Taylorwrote:

Leaf blower!

That too.

Great thread. I've been bolting and developing 2005 on pacific northwest basalt, sometimes in moss country, sometimes in high desert. Some all gear, most mixed, very few all bolted. Some single pitch, some multi. What worked on one route may not work for another. I approach every route like a problem to be solved, and each problem is different.

It's ideal to have lots of people toprope before you drill anything - as was said, others will find entirely different sequences, use holds you didn't consider, circumvent your contrived crux, may not agree certain gear is solid enough to replace a bolt, may not agree a potential lead fall is acceptable, may disagree with your proposed anchor location, may not agree the rock is solid enough for a bolt, etc.  They might see potential lines to either side that will may you re-consider which line really is the primary line and which might be a variation - they can help you visualize the entire wall in a way you didn't see.

People have said "thank you" to me about my routes but I like to tell them "I didn't do it for you, I did it for me. I wanted the experience, and I wanted the FA. So it was actually for me, but glad you can enjoy the route too." I say it with a smile, but I'm being sincere. Yet creating routes uses up a finite resource. You can't please everybody, you might be criticized for some aspect of your route, but you have basic obligations. Clean your route - and the entire path of lowering/rapping - until its free of loose rock. Don't move on to the next route when you know there is some dangling choss you ignored because you know to avoid it. And most importantly, be HONEST about the style of development and ascent (call it R if you sent it in headpoint style only after extensive toproping). If you want to leave behind an R rated route you created on rappel, you also have to be honest about the prep work you did prior to the lead. 

we were developing In Hong Kong - lots of organic debris - and a partner suggested a leaf blower partly as a joke.  I was in the hardware store picking up some spare dewalt batteries, and said “I’ll bite.”  It was super-useful, and vastly entertaining at the same time.  

Wait guys do you not know about using a fire extinguisher? You can use a pressured water extinguisher to clean rock, my wife said she would give me an enema with it if I bought more dumb climbing stuff so I don’t have one.

A cheap alternative to the pressurized duster sprays is the nitrous oxide found in cans of whipped cream. Plus you can huff it too.

Adam Wood wrote:

This thread has drifted but  is  entertaining. Leaf blowers are expected in my neck of the woods. A typical scenario would be two folks with blowers and “goggles” as mentioned, and perhaps one or two folks with long handle cultivator type tools to loosen soil. Working in teams one person loosens dirt, the second blows it away. This is extremely effective in forested environments. 

LNT, lol

M Mwrote:

LNT, lol

It grows back quickly over here. The forest will reclaim routes, especially those of the off vertical variety, in a few years at most. 

Ward Smithwrote:

My only comment is that general best practice is to mark the bolts with a chalk dot first, then have somebody else do it and check your potential placements.   I know that you had already toproped it, but multiple toprope ascents by different people often find different sequences. 

 I've bolted a ton of routes by myself and am surprised at the different ways to climb and clip that other people find.  I now try to set a toprope on it and let several people try it.  We almost always end up moving a bolt or two. 

This is even more important for newbies bolting their first route

1000% agree and even with experience putting up lines, found this a key lesson.