New and Experienced Climbers Over 50 #15

rgoldwrote:

Haha I used to run down talus fields BITD,  Nowadays it is a very sedate walk, and yes a butt skooch too if the alternative is jumping more than a foot or two.  Don't wanna mess up that expensive cadaver tendon installed nine years ago with consequent pain and suffering, or subject the one that's still original equipment to an analogous indignity.

The sad reality is I can't begin to keep up with the younger generation going up or going down.  I'm still in motion though, which is consolation enough.

Let's flip that last paragraph, shall we?

The sad reality is that the majority of the younger generation will likely not be doing what you are doing, when they are your age.

The extraordinarily sad reality is how many will never try at all. At any age.

That's the gauntlet I throw down. This is what 'old' can look like. I dare ya to try and stop me. I also dare you, young(er) person, to give it a try. Swap "I can't" for "not yet" or "why not" and give your life your best shot. Right now. Not ten years from now. Because you never know if you have those ten years.

And?

Pretty much everyone on this thread would need to slow down for me, if we ever do anything at all together, lol! There is that.

Best, Helen

Lori Milaswrote:

Oh this is perfect!  Thank you for posting this!  I was having a laugh this morning to think that the sure way to take out our entire “over 50” climbing community in one fell swoop is for us all to head out to run a talus field. Naked.   We’d either be dead or in jail by end of day... I’d prefer the later.

This is a great solution Kristian.  A happy compromise for now.  

I'm in   .

Lori, I haven't seen or talked to Dave in about 20 years.  He, like most people that start climbing, had a family and job and quit climbing to concentrate on them.  He wife really didn't like him climbing anymore and that was a strong factor in him quitting.  When we put routes up we were pretty adamant about putting bolts close enough so that people would enjoy the routes and they wouldn't be horror fests.  There were a few exceptions, EBGBs and Good to the Last Drop come to mind.  Back then most of Josh was undeveloped and we would just wander around and look for faces that looked doable.

Dave was also a pilot and his father in law had a small plane and he would occasionally fly out to the Yucca airport and we would meet him there and then we would fly around Josh looking for good walls to climb.  Back then Mike Waugh and I would drive out to Josh on Friday afternoon or evening and could pull into Hidden Valley campground and there might be two campsites taken by people that we didn't know.  It was mostly the same 20+ people every weekend.  We all climbed together to some degree and were a pretty close group (Stonemasters).  Dave and I were always a little outside the main group because we didn't get stoned and were a little older than everyone else so we did a lot of routes with just the two of us, although often others would tag along and get credit on the first ascent without doing any of the work by putting bolts in (i.e. EBGBs, Dave and I did all the bolting but Nick and Mike helped belay and then followed the route when it was done).  

It is pretty hard to emphasize what a wonderful period in climbing that was.  Everyone was constantly pushing everyone else and the ratings went up pretty fast.  When Dave quit climbing I mostly climbed with Herb Laeger and then Kris.  I mostly quit climbing at Josh with the main group when the Mobile Harrassment Unit (MHU) got too nasty (mostly due to Mike and Mari unfortunately) and Herb and I started climbing in the southern Sierra instead.  It was only when I start climbing with Kris a lot that I put additional routes up in Josh with Kris and by then the difficulty was much higher.  He and Guy Keesee and I had some remarkable years climbing together!

If I recall correctly, the last time I saw Dave was at the Josh Reunion in 2006? - What a group of characters that was - so fun.

Still an incredibly nice guy.

Think he was still living in Long Beach. 

I am looking at one of the copies of Joshua Tree West (that had just been released) which many of the climbers in attendance signed. Sad to note a number of them are no longer with us.

(A couple of pages with signatures - with Dave Houser's featured in the second photo on the lower left part of right-hand page.)

Is Dave Houser the Houser of Houser Buttress?

Randywrote:

If I recall correctly, the last time I saw Dave was at the Josh Reunion in 2006? - What a group of characters that was - so fun.

Still an incredibly nice guy.

Think he was still living in Long Beach. 

I am looking at one of the copies of Joshua Tree West (that had just been released) which many of the climbers in attendance signed. Sad to note a number of them are no longer with us.

(A couple of pages with signatures - with Dave Houser's featured in the second photo on the lower left part of right-hand page.)

Apparently you went by Herb Laeger, back then? Lol!

Stuff is pretty much just stuff, most of the time. But not always. 

A friend of mine recently lost pretty much everything he owned, and then some. Most of it is replaceable, and that's happening now, life goes on.

But not everything.

It's the people. 

Those few things, strongly associated with people and the time we had with them, most of low monetary value, have no price tag for replacement.

Anyone here see Harold and Maude? If so, you will likely know exactly what scene comes to mind for me, with the ring that will never be lost. But Maude made her own choices. When those choices are denied us? It's wrenching. 

We pick ourselves up, move on....

And pull up a campfire and tell stories to those who know how to listen, even to the silences in between.

Donald? That, is the heart of this long series of threads. 

No thin skins here. We are old enough to have battle scars aplenty.

Beat up enough to listen. 

And savor this, these people, for as long as we are gifted it.

Best, Helen

P.S. we are also old enough to know the glorious art of subtle, good humoured slander. ;-)

Donald Thompsonwrote:

Is Dave Houser the Houser of Houser Buttress?

The one and only.

Not sure he named it after himself - too self effacing for that. But, Loose Lady was the first route on the formation, a Houser & McCollum classic.

As may have been posted elsewhere, there was a reason for the name - the route originally feature tons of loose flakes and "ball-bearing" type of rock. When I first climbed Loose Lady, it wasn't the best of climbing experiences. Of course, it eventually cleaned up (and then some).

PS: Helen,

Yes, classic Herb Laeger humor - and the off chance of the book coming "back" to him someday.  

Randywrote:

The one and only.

Not sure he named it after himself - too self effacing for that. But, Loose Lady was the first route on the formation, a Houser & McCollum classic.

As may have been posted elsewhere, there was a reason for the name - the route originally feature tons of loose flakes and "ball-bearing" type of rock. When I first climbed Loose Lady, it wasn't the best of climbing experiences. Of course, it eventually cleaned up (and then some).

Yes indeed Loose Lady my favorite root over there. Two bulges followed by runout face. Superb route. And it can get real windy over there.

Old Lady H: of course once again you are so very correct. 

Any advice on eyeglass that will work for rock climbing?

I need to get some progressives.  Last year when I tried to get this sorted out I had an excellent vision for things far and close(with glasses on!).  However, my 1-4 foot vision seemed a bit off making me climb even slower.  I felt like it took me forever to find the smaller holds.  

I plan on getting an eye exam next week.  Anyone else have this problem?  Advice? 

Jan Mcwrote:

Lori, I haven't seen or talked to Dave in about 20 years.  He, like most people that start climbing, had a family and job and quit climbing to concentrate on them.  He wife really didn't like him climbing anymore and that was a strong factor in him quitting.  When we put routes up we were pretty adamant about putting bolts close enough so that people would enjoy the routes and they wouldn't be horror fests.  There were a few exceptions, EBGBs and Good to the Last Drop come to mind.  Back then most of Josh was undeveloped and we would just wander around and look for faces that looked doable.

Dave was also a pilot and his father in law had a small plane and he would occasionally fly out to the Yucca airport and we would meet him there and then we would fly around Josh looking for good walls to climb.  Back then Mike Waugh and I would drive out to Josh on Friday afternoon or evening and could pull into Hidden Valley campground and there might be two campsites taken by people that we didn't know.  It was mostly the same 20+ people every weekend.  We all climbed together to some degree and were a pretty close group (Stonemasters).  Dave and I were always a little outside the main group because we didn't get stoned and were a little older than everyone else so we did a lot of routes with just the two of us, although often others would tag along and get credit on the first ascent without doing any of the work by putting bolts in (i.e. EBGBs, Dave and I did all the bolting but Nick and Mike helped belay and then followed the route when it was done).  

It is pretty hard to emphasize what a wonderful period in climbing that was.  Everyone was constantly pushing everyone else and the ratings went up pretty fast.  When Dave quit climbing I mostly climbed with Herb Laeger and then Kris.  I mostly quit climbing at Josh with the main group when the Mobile Harrassment Unit (MHU) got too nasty (mostly due to Mike and Mari unfortunately) and Herb and I started climbing in the southern Sierra instead.  It was only when I start climbing with Kris a lot that I put additional routes up in Josh with Kris and by then the difficulty was much higher.  He and Guy Keesee and I had some remarkable years climbing together!

Jan, Randy... I'm just touched by this.  Don't want to gush, but this means a lot.  Thank you so much!

Some days I walk this Park and it is brand new and I discover things for the first time. Other days I hear voices, laughter, from the past and I know I'm missing stories.  I climb just enough now to appreciate the level of skill and bravado it took to create some of these routes.  But what's missing is information like above... who was there, what was going on.  

Is anyone writing this down?  Is anyone interested in helping to write this down?  There should be a book, before it's lost... "The History of Joshua Tree Climbing".  I would help any way I could.  

I've spent some time looking for Houser as I got more and more interested in his routes.  ('your' routes).  I realize that climbing these on top rope may not be honor enough, but honestly... it's the best I can do at this point.  The day I climbed Chalk Up Another One I had such mixed feelings.  I had worked for that one and could hardly imagine leading that.  Mad respect for the athleticism and talent you all had, and probably still have. (A question I've been asking is whether this route was supposed to be climbed on the arête--like in my picture top, or up the middle, which is now so polished there was just no way.)   

It sounds like there is much more to this history, maybe unsafe to write about here?  MHU?  

I know things have changed.  I don't think I can fix any of that.  But my mind and heart are with the history and the climbers of this place.  I hope we can all meet one day.  

Meanwhile... I think I have received the go-ahead to plan for Run For Your Life.  Just doing my toe-lifts to be able to handle the sustained feet on that beautiful rock.  Maybe if Dave knows he has a few fans he will have mercy and catch a flight here to sign more autographs and know how much he is appreciated. (well, all of you guys)  :-)  Thank you, Jan! 

Randy, that is a great couple of photos.  The signature that jumped out at me first was Bob van Belle.  That is a person I think I would have enjoyed meeting in real life, and not just as a name and stories on Supertopo.  American Legend.  There's a lifetime of stories in each of those names.  How wonderful that you have those memories.

Randywrote:

If I recall correctly, the last time I saw Dave was at the Josh Reunion in 2006? - What a group of characters that was - so fun.

Still an incredibly nice guy.

Think he was still living in Long Beach. 

I am looking at one of the copies of Joshua Tree West (that had just been released) which many of the climbers in attendance signed. Sad to note a number of them are no longer with us.

(A couple of pages with signatures - with Dave Houser's featured in the second photo on the lower left part of right-hand page.)

Ha! I was standing right there when Herb signed that one book there "This book is the property of Herb Laeger, please return!" And he put down his phone number."

For about 30 seconds there I though your head was gonna explode.   

Memories...

Mike Kwrote:

Any advice on eyeglass that will work for rock climbing?

I need to get some progressives.  Last year when I tried to get this sorted out I had an excellent vision for things far and close(with glasses on!).  However, my 1-4 foot vision seemed a bit off making me climb even slower.  I felt like it took me forever to find the smaller holds.  

I plan on getting an eye exam next week.  Anyone else have this problem?  Advice? 

In the gym, glasses, a mask, or both (mask required), I have to really tip my head and lean over to see foot placements. I have an old pair of glasses that are very comfortable and stay on well, so I wear them most of the time. With a thin cloth mask, I can pull the mask up my nose, then "pin" it down on my nose with my glasses. That helps, sorta, with fogging. 

But, there's also life in general. With knees that may have their own ideas, I have to watch my footing regularly, especially on broken terrain and downslope. Including simple stair steps. Bifocals mean anything lower is not where you think it is. Makes it more..... interesting.

At City of Rocks last summer, we were on Indian Chief, up at Twin Sisters. It is an easy hunk of rock, with about three bolted anchors. Basically, get s rope on an anchor however you choose, then top rope wherever you wish.

This particularly day, the light was just right to create optical confusion. Is that quarter-sized foothold a dimple, or a bump???? Shit, Helen! You can stand up on either, you idiot! That? Turned out to be a super fun climb! Meandered all over that thing, to whatever stretch looked fun to play on. 

And trusted the feet on every single bit that looked like it might be....something. And it worked! 

Best, Helen

Soloist on Indian Chief. Couldn't even wait long enough to close the car door, to get hands on COR rock, lol!

Donald Thompsonwrote:

I appreciate your statement Erika. My original  commemts were perhaps perceived as negative by those who are just a wee bit too thin in the skin and perhaps elevate the social and communal over the individual in a way that is diminishing to free discourse. Again, thanks. 

"All animals are equal but some are more equal than others"

                              George Orwell 

                               

Why not just say sorry and leave it at that instead of naming people as thin skinned and suggesting some of us are NOT equal? 

The Orwell quote is quite abhorant in this context. 

I haven’t posted for a while as I’ve been busy. So what have I been doing? Generally climbing with a number of ladies far younger than I, which is always fun. Been top roping in the gym and it’s been nice to be able to onsight or get clean after less than 3 attempts some grade 21s (5.10d).

Climbed with a young lady the other day who had perfect poise. I asked her how long she’d been climbing for. “A month” was the answer. When I looked at her aghast she said “Yeah, but I’m a circus performer”.  It seems her thing is handstands. Funny thing is she was not just strong, but had wonderful body awareness, right down to little things like where she suspected she’d need to match a hold, she’d leave room for the other hard.  Sometimes it takes beginner climbers a long time to get that sort of awareness.

I’ve also been doing some ‘mock leading’ as another lady I climb with wanted to get back in to trad after only doing a few routes a few years ago, and she wasn’t up to leading yet. We did this on a grade 16 (5.8/5.9) which I can do very very easily. It’s an overhung route though and it reminded me that trad leading makes things so much harder with the weight of the rack and the hanging on to place gear, etc. Also, many of the best places for gear placement were also the best hand holds. Anyway, we got the job done. I ‘led’ (mock led) it clean but she needed several rests. My endurance is actually very good. She is no slouch, she’s very strong (much better at bouldering than I), is the coach of the youth squad and is a physical training instructor, but little old Carl has better endurance. I also enjoyed down climbing the grade 16. How many of you down climb routes on TR? I’m going to start doing more of that.

30 days till I go away for the whole month to Mount Arapiles and The Grampians, so I’m a bit obsessive about getting strong and lean.   

Mike K. I have been blind as a bat since 5yrs old.   naturally the last decade has sucked with me haveing 3 different distance perscriptions. I got a pair of bifocals that are useless for everything other than playing guitar which they excell at.  What I have settled on for work is my medium distance  script in safety glasses. I find that also work great for  harder rock climbs where I need to see minute details. For ice and easy rock I wear my long distance rigs. 

Carl Schneiderwrote:

Why not just say sorry and leave it at that instead of naming people as thin skinned and suggesting some of us are NOT equal? 

The Orwell quote is quite abhorant in this context. 

It wasn't my intent to apologize, and certainly not in an expeditious manner. I was making a point about thin -skinned people in a context you failed to mention or refer to. I never identified anyone by name because I thought it would be preferable and diplomatic to be overly broad. Granted the entire post was a little passive-aggressive ,at least for me, but I nonetheless said what I wanted to say. Essentially it was directed at the snowflake generation and their overreaction to the slightest perceived threat to the bubble they prefer to exist within. There is something very Orwellian there-- hence my Animal Farm quote. 

MikeK:  Here is a hack you might want to try . Get a pair of Blue blocker glasses and wear them under artificial light especially at night and especially while looking into screens of any kind. They're relatively inexpensive . A brand called I think UVEX are well under $20. Go to Google scholar and type in studies done on the ill-effects of Blue light overexposure on overall health and particularly circadian dysfunction.

Donald Thompsonwrote:

It wasn't my intent to apologize, and certainly not in an expeditious manner. I was making a point about thin -skinned people in a context you failed to mention or refer to. I never identified anyone by name because I thought it would be preferable and diplomatic to be overly broad. Granted the entire post was a little passive-aggressive ,at least for me, but I nonetheless said what I wanted to say. Essentially it was directed at the snowflake generation and their overreaction to the slightest perceived threat to the bubble they prefer to exist within. There is something very Orwellian there-- hence my Animal Farm quote. 

Okey dokes... 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

Mike K. I have been blind as a bat since 5yrs old.   naturally the last decade has sucked with me haveing 3 different distance perscriptions. I got a pair of bifocals that are useless for everything other than playing guitar which they excell at.  What I have settled on for work is my medium distance  script in safety glasses. I find that also work great for  harder rock climbs where I need to see minute details. For ice and easy rock I wear my long distance rigs. 

If you're lucky enough to have cataracts, you can have cataract surgery. Seriously. I have decent vision for the first time in my life. 

Mike Kwrote:

Any advice on eyeglass that will work for rock climbing?

I need to get some progressives.  Last year when I tried to get this sorted out I had an excellent vision for things far and close(with glasses on!).  However, my 1-4 foot vision seemed a bit off making me climb even slower.  I felt like it took me forever to find the smaller holds.  

I plan on getting an eye exam next week.  Anyone else have this problem?  Advice? 

Hey Mike.  Great question.  I finally gave in and just bought regular reading glasses off the shelf at Walgreens--the same magnification I wear for reading, because really what I needed them for is to see detail on rock, which is now pretty much all the time.  When I wear these glasses they change the whole landscape.  

The drawback is, glare off those rocks is a killer, especially filtered in through reading glasses, so I went to see the eye doctor this week and got prescription sunglasses.  I was happy that the doctor knew exactly what I'd be needing, including UV protection, wrap around frames, glare block and polarization.  I don't have them yet... will post here when they arrive and I have a few days to try them out.  

The previous suggestion on blue-blocker glasses may not apply to rock climbing, but I've sure been giving this some thought for use at home in front of the computer and tv etc.