Belay from the top with a micro traxion

Just finished a pitch with bad rope drag, awkward belay stance, as long as you keep the follower tight, any real reason why it would be bad to belay the follower using only a micro traxion?

LOL! 

The only real reason I can think of is I don't like getting punched in the mouth by my partner :)

Is there any reason belaying with a microtrax would be helpful?

https://www.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Belaying-the-second-with-a-MICRO-TRAXION--beware-of-any-fall?ActivityName=Multi-pitch-climbing

People simulclimb with a setup similar to what you are describing. It has a higher likely hood to damage the rope. You can’t lower the 2nd if needed but it is possible. A poor stance and rope drag isn’t really great justification in my mind though.

Increasingly popular approach is to have follow TR solo with their preferred setup (microtraxion for me)

Kinda sucks if there are significant traverses or roof sections.

Sean Fujimoriwrote:

Increasingly popular approach is to have follow TR solo with their preferred setup (microtraxion for me)

Kinda sucks if there are significant traverses or roof sections.

I already do this on long, harder free climbs. This is probably the better way to avoid belaying from the top. But was curious what people think. Sometimes it can be annoying/hazardous to have an entire rope dangling below.

 The biggest reason would be to save a bunch of energy at awkward stances with bad bad rope drag. Definitely adds up on longer routes, especially when leading in blocks. I agree though that it’s definitely not usually worth it. Probably best to double check first with the partner.

Probably best to double check first with the partner.

If you're both good with the additional risk it sounds like you understand the shortcoming, so why not? The 2nd is the one who will pay the price if that little cam fails to lock the rope at the crucial second. Maybe, I dunno, 6 or 8 teeth of contact, something like that?

Whoa whoa whoa: y'all are making the second follow by TRS'ing? Leaders just f- off and take a nap or something? How do you weight the rope, and what happens if the rope gets caught pulling it up at the top of the pitch? You gotta go down again and futz with all that? 

Sean Fujimoriwrote:

Increasingly popular approach is to have follow TR solo with their preferred setup (microtraxion for me)

Kinda sucks if there are significant traverses or roof sections.

Yep, that’s how to short fix, and is probably safer, but I’ve simul climbed with a microtrax with great success,the leader just needs to take up all the slack or the follower should be waiting until the leader is in good position to do so. This worked well for me and a partner on Snake dike, the first 4 pitches were more protected then we finished the route with the traditional type simul climbing. We finished the route a bit faster than short fixing this way on the easier climbing.

I think if you are having issues with bad rope drag and need help pulling the rope, it would be a lot safer to setup a standard belay of the anchor (say with a gri gri), and use the microtrax on your belay loop, setup on the break strand of the rope. This will allow you to essentially 1:1 "haul" to keep the line taut with minimal effort. 

The simul-climbing setup with the microtrax is very situational and very high potential consequence. Using it as a top rope belay, I could easily see a situation where the rope gets caught to the side of the follower (say in a flake), resulting in a pendulum-ing fall resulting in a failure mode like described in the Petzl guide. 

Long Rangerwrote:

Whoa whoa whoa: y'all are making the second follow by TRS'ing? Leaders just f- off and take a nap or something? How do you weight the rope, and what happens if the rope gets caught pulling it up at the top of the pitch? You gotta go down again and futz with all that? 

Leader is eating/drinking/hauling/shortfixing into the next pitch.  There typically is no weighting the rope, aside from the weight of the free hanging rope, which is often left free of knots to mitigate the risk of it getting caught. 

This is not a technique you'd use at Lumpy on a casual day.  It is something that expert level alpinists are using to climb huge routes within a weather window in Patagonia, for example.

It should be fine - Petzl says there was only one "total rope failure." 

Don't do it.

I’ve belayed from above with a micro trax a few times, of course it works but isn’t advised so do with that what you please. The TR solo following is really amazing beta. Doesn’t make it any harder as the follower, and saves the collective a ton of energy in arbitrary rope movement. I didn’t initially believe the hype, but now I’m all aboard that style. 

It isn’t bad until something happens. I’ve done it at the top of pitches as you’ve described. The only thing I worry about is the cam not engaging. So I tie a couple backup knots as the climber comes up. Seems kinda legit.

I think you should decouple the friction from the belay device from other sources of friction.  If you can, pull slack to the device with one hand and then pull the rope through the device with the other.  This way you aren’t adding the friction from the belay device to the rope drag from the pitch.  I understand that the belay stance is awkward, but a micro traction only really starts to make sense if you cannot pull slack in upstream of the belay device from your stance.  

Belaying a follower with a GriGri is almost as easy as belaying a follower with a micro traxion and way more versatile.   Having the follower self belay on a GriGri may also be preferable to self belaying with a micro traxion.  Easy for them to manage slack, when needed. 

Philip Magistrowrote:

Leader is eating/drinking/hauling/shortfixing into the next pitch.  There typically is no weighting the rope, aside from the weight of the free hanging rope, which is often left free of knots to mitigate the risk of it getting caught. 

This is not a technique you'd use at Lumpy on a casual day.  It is something that expert level alpinists are using to climb huge routes within a weather window in Patagonia, for example.

If you're gunna simul, simul. If not, jug it.

Is there any advantage to belaying with a Micro over a Grigri?

How would belaying with a MicroTraxion solve a problem that the Grigri couldn't?

I would argue that the extra weight of jugging gear isn’t worth it. Also I’m guessing that these experts may free climb faster than jugging..? Also, free climbing is way more fun than jugging. Would make for an ascent “in better style.”

FrankPSwrote:

Is there any advantage to belaying with a Micro over a Grigri?

How would belaying with a MicroTraxion solve a problem that the Grigri couldn't?

Hmm good point. I’d feel much better going hands free with a micro traxion than a gri gri. Micro traxion would also still be more “efficient” but not by the same margin as a traditional belay set up.

Bug Boywrote:

Hmm good point. I’d feel much better going hands free with a micro traxion than a gri gri. Micro traxion would also still be more “efficient” but not by the same margin as a traditional belay set up.

You can't go hands-free with the Micro without risking the follower building up slack in the rope. And falling with slack on a Micro is dangerous to the follower. Way more dangerous than with a Grigri.