Mt. Whitney in January?

Dan Merrickwrote:

Snow shoes suck for anything but flat ground. I did take a pair to Whitney once because there was some new snow but carried them more than I wore them. Snow shoes can be useless in trees, brush or rugged terrain. 

I think this is a strange statement.  Snowshoes suck, period.  But they are the only way to go in deep snow when in trees, brush or rugged terrain, as skis won't work when the going gets rough. 

Daniel Lewiswrote:

Thanks Connor and Dan! Trying to get there now. Got your message, Connor.

Perfect sending conditions. Get after it!

MP User wrote:

what a selfish act, shame on you

In addition to YOLO there is also YOCAY (you only care about yourself) 

David Devillewrote:

From someone living in the desert southwest, I find it almost offensive that you would hope for less snow in the mountains, in January, for the sake of "conditions", and on the tail end of some historic droughts. Not actually offensive, but I am having a hard time wrapping my head around that. 

I suggest you try to calm down and take the pole out of your behind. I just want this dude to be safe. Go cry in another thread. 

If you get offended at a good intentioned message of being safe and heeding to bad avy conditions you must be really fun to deal with in real life. 

MP User wrote:

what a selfish act, shame on you

So brave telling people not to camp behind an anonymous account. We need more heroes like you. 

Why not go complain about the thousands of people driving to ski in the sierra and in tahoe. Or people flying to Utah from CA to ski there. Or did you just want your special feel good points for anonymously saying to one dude 'HOW DARE YOU, YOU SELFISH PERSON, EVERY FOOT STEP KILLS GRANDMA'. 

Connor Dobsonwrote:

I suggest you try to calm down and take the pole out of your behind. I just want this dude to be safe. Go cry in another thread. 

If you get offended at a good intentioned message of being safe and heeding to bad avy conditions you must be really fun to deal with in real life. 

But that wasn't what you said, and that's what he's objecting to - your stated hope that a much needed storm goes elsewhere or isn't as strong.

"A powerful winter storm is expected to bring multiple feet of new snow with gale force winds over the next 2 days.  This new snow will be loading a shallow and generally weak snowpack.  Large and destructive avalanches involving the new snow and the existing snowpack could occur.  EXTREME avalanche danger exists for the SAC forecast region.  Travel in or near avalanche terrain is not recommended and should be avoided."

Here is a link to the sierra avalanche center

https://www.sierraavalanchecenter.org/forecasts#/central-sierra-nevada

This is not a week for mountaineering, no matter what the route. 

Connor Dobsonwrote:

Why not go complain about the thousands of people driving to ski in the sierra and in tahoe. Or people flying to Utah from CA to ski there. Or did you just want your special feel good points for anonymously saying to one dude 'HOW DARE YOU, YOU SELFISH PERSON, EVERY FOOT STEP KILLS GRANDMA'. 

If this was TGR forums and someone was discussing flying to go ski/board - then yes, we should shame them. This is a climbing forum, though. 

Our entire Country's response to COVID has been a shitshow. There is nothing wrong with a little self-policing forum shaming. Maybe it reduced some people's travel - lots of lurkers who read MP or members who don't speak up. Maybe they thought twice.

Hey look! CA is less shutdown now. For all those who restricted unnecessary travel for the good of others - that's awesome and it helped.

I'd rather we spend our keyboard warrior fights focusing on preventing the spread of COVID, which can save lives, versus debating whether a route name is offensive and what to do about it.

Daniel Lewiswrote:

Hey MP friends! A lady friend and I are wanting to climb Mt. Whitney starting around January 22nd. Side note: permits are only showing as available through January 17th. We’d go the Whitney Trail, and it’s looking like weather is generally 0°-20°. I’ve read a good bit of info about the mountaineering route, but not the more common route. I’ve got a few questions so that we can go prepared.

1. I’m seeing that snowshoes, and maybe crampons and ice axes, are useful for winter on the Whitney Trail. Any other suggested gear?

2. Favorite camp other than Trail Camp?

3. Would La Sportiva GT5 hiking boots be warm enough? If not, I can get the Trango Extremes for 75% off (no joke!).

4. Likely fly into LAX and then take the Metrolink train and bus to Lone Pine. Is there any easier way to get there?

5. Any other weather insights for summit day? I’m looking for worst case scenario weather.

6. Anything y’all can advise that I have not thought to ask?

Thanks!

Daniel

It’s honestly disappointing how mind numbingly toolish some of these people are. It’s a goddamn hike dude, go hike. Don’t let some gatekeeping boner on the internet keep you from doing that. I’ve done Whitney twice in the last month, once at the end of December and again one week ago from today, but that was just before this huge storm hit so I obviously don’t have the most updated conditions, but I’ve also done it in super high snow seasons so I understand what you’ll be going up against. I’d highly recommend camping at outpost camp. It’s 4 miles from the trailhead, and 7 miles from where you’ll have to actually start since the road will be snowed out below the rock fall gate. It’s at 10.5k and will be totally under snow so make sure you’re prepared for that kind of camping. You’ll also need crampons and an ice axe for the snow bank that forms over the switch backs. It’s a slog but I think it’s actually better because it cuts out some mileage from the overall trip. You’re not really in anything close to an avalanche chute the entire way up the Whitney trail, I think the only recorded avys around Whitney have been up the chute on the mountaineers route also as far as I’ve found. Obviously keep a super close eye on the weather and only go up when it’s sunny and NOT WINDY which can ruin a trip real quick in the high Sierra and most people don’t consider that. Be prepared for a real cold night and enjoy, it’s an awesome hike!

Tanner Jameswrote:

It’s honestly disappointing how mind numbingly toolish some of these people are. It’s a goddamn hike dude, go hike. Don’t let some gatekeeping boner on the internet keep you from doing that. I’ve done Whitney twice in the last month, once at the end of December and again one week ago from today, but that was just before this huge storm hit so I obviously don’t have the most updated conditions, but I’ve also done it in super high snow seasons so I understand what you’ll be going up against. I’d highly recommend camping at outpost camp. It’s 4 miles from the trailhead, and 7 miles from where you’ll have to actually start since the road will be snowed out below the rock fall gate. It’s at 10.5k and will be totally under snow so make sure you’re prepared for that kind of camping. You’ll also need crampons and an ice axe for the snow bank that forms over the switch backs. It’s a slog but I think it’s actually better because it cuts out some mileage from the overall trip. You’re not really in anything close to an avalanche chute the entire way up the Whitney trail, I think the only recorded avys around Whitney have been up the chute on the mountaineers route also as far as I’ve found. Obviously keep a super close eye on the weather and only go up when it’s sunny and NOT WINDY which can ruin a trip real quick in the high Sierra and most people don’t consider that. Be prepared for a real cold night and enjoy, it’s an awesome hike!

Thanks, Tanner! You talking about recent climbs is informative. So Whitney Portal to Outpost Camp (3.6mi, 2,200’ gain) to summit (6.4mi, 4,400’) and back, or am I misunderstanding “where you’ll have to actually start”? Have you tried Whitney Portal to Trail Camp (6 mi, 3,600’) to summit (4mi, 3,000’)?

Did you need snowshoes down low in super snow seasons before the crampons? I know that’s recent-weather specific, but I’ve seen guys who only used the snowshoes hiking in, then left them behind for crampons going up.

Yes, I’ll bring the ice axe and G12s. Also have a Nemo Tenshi and -40° down Mountain Hardwear. I’m not trying to slip and/or freeze! I’ve talked to guys who bitched about wearing stiff mountaineering shoes, and guys who bitched about hiking boots being way too cold (even top of the line ones, like the La Sportiva GTX). Thoughts?

Windy can ruin a trip and make that frostbite risk way more real.

You will probably hike the road for 3 miles (according to Tanner's measurement) to get to Whitney Portal. Doubt the road is open all the way to Whitney Portal.

Tanner Jameswrote:

t’s a goddamn hike dude, go hike

Agreed.

Go hike. 

Don't pre-game on MP about how you're going to be a douche by flying in and taking public transit during the worst surge of the worst pandemic in 100 years.

Daniel Lewiswrote:

Thanks, Tanner! You talking about recent climbs is informative. So Whitney Portal to Outpost Camp (3.6mi, 2,200’ gain) to summit (6.4mi, 4,400’) and back, or am I misunderstanding “where you’ll have to actually start”? Have you tried Whitney Portal to Trail Camp (6 mi, 3,600’) to summit (4mi, 3,000’)?

Did you need snowshoes down low in super snow seasons before the crampons? I know that’s recent-weather specific, but I’ve seen guys who only used the snowshoes hiking in, then left them behind for crampons going up.

Yes, I’ll bring the ice axe and G12s. Also have a Nemo Tenshi and -40° down Mountain Hardwear. I’m not trying to slip and/or freeze! I’ve talked to guys who bitched about wearing stiff mountaineering shoes, and guys who bitched about hiking boots being way too cold (even top of the line ones, like the La Sportiva GTX). Thoughts?

Windy can ruin a trip and make that frostbite risk way more real.

You’re not going to want to camp at trail camp, it’s above the timberline and extremely exposed to the elements. It’s a summer campsite but horrible for winter unless you’re all about suffering. Plus you’d have to carry all your camp stuff up about 10 miles from your car to camp as opposed to 7 miles to outpost. Outpost is also in a nice protected bowl of peaks so you won’t get nearly as much weather and it’s a few grand lower, just more recommended all around from someone who’s done it quite a few times but both are certainly options. Snowshoes could be helpful if you go RIGHT after a heavy snow, but if it dumps and then you have classic sunny/freezing days it turns the new snow solid fairly quickly if it’s below freezing, and there will be a beaten path in the snow within a few days as well as it’s a pretty well traveled peak. I did the first Whitney winter ascent this year after the first big snow in mid December, I went up the mountaineers route and down the Whitney trail making my own tracks the entire way and I only used crampons and super light trail runners. I personally don’t think snowshoes are worth the hassle/extra weight/slow movement but again, you’re your own canopy commander here. If you’re camping be prepared for an extraordinarily cold night but during the day when you’re moving all the gear you have sounds more than sufficient  

Also: I guess technically with chains and 4wd you could drive up the completely snow covered road to the rock fall gate (which is closed for the winter 1.5 miles from the trailhead) but most people park at the bottom gate in the winter and hike the extra mileage which is about 3.5 miles one way, so 7 miles total extra. When I did this again In March the hike was 27 miles car to car. I stepped off at 3pm, bivied at outpost camp around 7ish for dinner, stepped off at 3am, summit around 7am and back to the car a little before noon. Hope that helps 

Tanner Jameswrote:

You’re not really in anything close to an avalanche chute the entire way up the Whitney trail, I think the only recorded avys around Whitney have been up the chute on the mountaineers route also as far as I’ve found.

Um, you don't need an avalanche chute to get hit. We had a death in Utah the other week on a wide open slope*.

Check out areas #4,  #5, and #6 in this document: www.californiamountaineer.net/WhitneyAvalancheAvoidance04282006.pdf

*Edit to add: here's the slide in Dutch Draw on Jan 8 that killed the person who triggered it. Note the total lack of an "avi chute".

Full write-up and more pics here: https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/57388

avy terrain 

A week ago the route would be doable but at least up north the danger is exreme and only likely to lower to high or considerable soon. Seems like those conditions would close off Whitney.

Connor Dobsonwrote:

Don't listen to all the haters. Camping outdoors doesn't spread the virus, it's dumb as shit to think it does. Many of  the 400,000 people who are dead now were flying all the time, wear a mask and don't be a dick and just let all these covid circle jerk people stew. Post a TR after you are done to make them extra upset. 

Fixed your typo for ya

With the storm ongoing, conditions are very much not ideal and if you aren't familiar with snow travel and avy risk then now on Mt. Whitney is not the time to learn.. I would recommend a less committing objective before diving into Mt. Whitney in winter. You can still have fun with all your gear in the Sierras. 

snowpack along the regular route has been light this season so far, if you can fly in anytime, i'd recommend waiting a little while longer til conditions get better both on the mountain and with covid... we have no room in the hospitals here in california and the stay at home order shouldn't have been lifted as things are very much not ok here

Joe Grynwrote:

snowpack along the regular route has been light this season so far, if you can fly in anytime, i'd recommend waiting a little while longer til conditions get better both on the mountain and with covid... we have no room in the hospitals here in california and the stay at home order shouldn't have been lifted as things are very much not ok here

Did you move from Chicago to California since you joined MP yesterday?