This redacted (renaming) routes is out of control!

B P wrote:

You’re comparing what Trump has done to Clinton lying about a blow job?
You’re killing me. 

Clinton lied under oath, which is a felony.

Ward Smith wrote:

Clinton lied under oath, which is a felony.

And Trump's ineptitude and divisiveness led to the deaths of 400,000 people and an assault on our body of Congress, which is worse. 

T Lego wrote:

And Trump's ineptitude and divisiveness led to the deaths of 400,000 people...

Pretty sure that was China bro.

T Lego wrote:

And Trump's ineptitude and divisiveness led to the deaths of 400,000 people and an assault on our body of Congress, which is worse. 

I'm no Trump fan.  But the virus was spreading unabated when Pelosi was handing out "impeachment pens."  Then, when Trump actually did something useful and banned travel from China, Joe Biden called him "xenophobic," and Pelosi went to China Town and encouraged everyone to go out and have a great time in the restaurants.  Plenty of blame to go around on the lack of coronavirus response.

And the man in control of capital police asked for National Guard assistance TWO DAYS before the attack on the capital.  He was denied by the Pentagon and the Sargent at Arms (source, New York Times) not Trump.   .  

So it's up to me to come with a solution? Ok, here's a suggestion: Frank wouldn't reach his post limit as often if he didn't waste his posts meaninglessly, all throughout the forum. So when called out on something, he would have the ability to actually respond in substance, like almost everybody else on this forum can. With that said, I don't really care what he does. I have no problems pointing at his posts and saying they're worthless to me, and I bet you that doesn't matter much to him at all. Just like I don't care what he thinks about my posts. 

So my solutions are he stops wasting posts, or deletes his account. Those both sound absurd, don't they? Me dictating what a grown ass man does with his account? So yeah, I'll stick to letting Frank live his life, he doesn't need or want my "solutions"

T Lego wrote:

So it's up to me to come with a solution? Ok, here's a suggestion: Frank wouldn't reach his post limit as often if he didn't waste his posts meaninglessly, all throughout the forum. So when called out on something, he would have the ability to actually respond in substance, like almost everybody else on this forum can. With that said, I don't really care what he does. I have no problems pointing at his posts and saying they're worthless to me, and I bet you that doesn't matter much to him at all. Just like I don't care what he thinks about my posts. 

So my solutions are he stops wasting posts, or deletes his account. Those both sound absurd, don't they? Me dictating what a grown ass man does with his account? So yeah, I'll stick to letting Frank live his life, he doesn't need or want my "solutions"

I'm proud of all the attention you give me. And how easy it is to get under your skin. All your personal attacks reflect more on you.

Carolina wrote:

Pretty sure that was China bro.

So as I was saying, Trump failed to protect our country from the "china virus" or whatever you want to call it. I don't think China had anything to do with the way that Trump handled the virus which originated there. Luckily we only have 4 more days before someone else gets a shot at handling it better. 

Edit: Thanks, Frank! Can you point out the personal attacks? I don't see any. In fact, I wasn't even addressing you. Hmmm

Karinia Gaston wrote:

Karinia, I respect your thoughts on the topic and I would like to hear more about your perspective. I have a few questions.

Do you think a route named Bitch Slapped should be redacted? You said it offends you so I would assume you think it should.

Is it possible to make light of situations without normalizing them? Comedians make light of situations all the time. Same with close friends. Sometimes it seems like it might help to laugh about an unfortunate situation to remind yourself that you can get through it and things will be ok.

What criteria to you think should be used to determine if a route name should be redacted?

Dave K wrote:

Lots of good information, but now I'm not sure where to direct my outrage... domestic abusers, the Black community (uppercase B), white male progressives (lowercase w) 

... or is Wayne Brady gonna have to redact a route?

It is terrible that these serious issues are ridiculed, but I don't see progress happening until we acknowledge just how prevalent this sort of humor is. We have major media corporations and powerful mainstream voices in minority communities getting laughs and making money from content that has far more impact than an obscure name in an obscure hobby.

One can dismiss my point as whattaboutism, but it's hard to ignore just how selective and inconsistent the outrage can be.

Seriously. I was just watching an awesome action movie with a gunfight in the streets. But as soon as I tried to go outside and shoot someone, the cops got all upset! What a bunch of hypocrites! Oh so when someone pretends to be an asshole in a show, they get huge amounts of money. But when I do it in real life I get arrested? Where's the consistency? I even told them it was "just a joke, bro" and they should lighten up. I feel that it was really unfair, and highlights how I'm victimized by society.

SinRopa wrote:

I don't get it...the point you're making supports the point you're attacking.  No one is suggesting that a domestic abuser shouldn't be punished.  If you're defending non-harmful, on-screen depictions of things that would be crimes in real life, wouldn't you also defend a (crudely humorous?) route name that references something that would be punishable in real life?

If the argument is that letting the route name slide normalizes or trivializes the real life behavior and isn't appropriately respectful to real life victims, I can see the logic there, but then wouldn't it be consistent to apply this same standard to the comedic performances that Dave is talking about?

The "argument" is that if you carefully set up a situation where you are going to mock bad behavior, and then show someone behaving badly, that is not the same as normalizing that behavior. If you want to try, in the few words of a route name, to set up a whole sketch, and play it out, that'd be great. But also impossible, isn't it?

But is that really something that was hard to see? Were you really unclear that setting up a sketch, for drama or comedy, is different than naming a route? 

Tony C wrote:

The solution being an open mind, some critical thinking skills and a TRULY liberal education, all of which I received in sufficient quantity and quality by the 11th grade, and were not much further enhanced by my professors in the academy. 

Dude if you think you learned as much as you needed to before finishing high school... Then again that explains quite a lot.

SinRopa wrote:

So you're not ok with "normalizing" route names, unless they're named after a comedy sketch mocking bad behavior?  For example, "I'd Never Hit a Woman, But I'd Shake the Sh*t Outta One - 5.9"  

That seems more "normalizing" than the original name you didn't like!

Not at all. Because it's not in a comedy sketch. Just like I wouldn't be off the hook for murder even if I committed that murder exactly the way it looked in a film. Because acting is different than real life.

But I'm not telling you something surprising. You've heard of acting. If this thread were about anything besides 'politics,' pretending that what a person says while playing the role of an asshole was the same as being an asshole would be laughable. It'd definitely be a joke. So why is it that when a thread is drug down into 'politics,' smart people like yourself suddenly pretend they never heard of the difference between acting and real life? I've got my guesses; but I'm more curious about yours. 

Tony C wrote:

These people convinced their electorate to censor (redact) speech:

Adolph Hitler (National Socialist German Worker’s Party)
Joseph Stalin (Russian Social Democratic Labour Party)
Vladimir Lenin (Russian Social Democratic Labour Party)
Hugo Chavez (United Socialist Party of Venezuela)
Pol Pot (Cambodian Democratic Party)

These people advocated free speech for everyone in the public sphere:

Abraham Lincoln (Republican Party)

Ronald Reagan (Republican Party)

Dr. Martin Luther King (Republican Party)

Reductio ad Hitlerum.

 Sorry but you are making a poor argument.

Well now this topic is in the Denver Post this morning.

Okay, I’ll give you Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et. al.  However, Hitler was not a leftie (despite the official name of the Nazi party), and neither were Franco and Mussolini (read up on Fascism in prewar Europe).  And then I would like to add right leaning advocates of free speech and civil liberties such as Pinochet, Idi Amin, Noriega, Marcos, the Argentine Junta, Fujimori, and more recently, Putin and Erdogan. I am sure I missed a few.  I think it is a bit specious to cast civil rights violations solely on the left, no?

Oh, and as a former Army officer and veteran of OIF, I have a really hard time taking arguments from someone who lied about their military career in their promotion packet (Silver Star! Ranger School! Q Course!) seriously. 

Kevinmurray wrote:

Well now this topic is in the Denver Post this morning.

hwat 

Link please.

Sorry the ability to send a link to the article is above my skill set.

Tony C wrote:

What can anyone do when they actually do reach their limit? Rather than attack a guy who has no recourse why don’t you acknowledge reality? MP won’t let him post anymore. He could add to a prior message, but then you get people like Gene Banks who complains about doing that too. You people offer no real solutions. You just complain.

Tony, it is generally accepted that when you edit a post, you make a notation that you did an edit. It helps keep the story straight and people accountable, but you already knew that. Its a tactic that you liked to use in the past on this forum and I see that you haven't changed your ways. You always had a funny relationship with the truth.

For people wondering what The Schmuck is talking about

https://www.deseret.com/2008/2/20/20071762/reservist-gets-prison-for-lying-about-medals

Actually Tony, now everyone knows where you are coming from. I and others have addressed many of your points, but often you ignore them and continue on with your Jordan Peterson cosplay routine. As I said before, my relatives died under a truly oppressive regime. They would have done anything to live under your "oppressive America". You are not victim here.

So, just checking on this thread, as I assume we've reached a consensus/unanimity by page 18:

Are we cool renaming routes or not?