Ice Screw Comparison

Here is a document I made over the weekend that has some information on some ice screws. The purpose is to have info on the majority of ice screws in one place to make it easier to compare models. It's not meant to tell you which screw to get just a document to compare data on different screws.

I divided them into 4 categories: Aluminum Screws; Advanced Steel Screws, steel screws with a rotating crank; Basic Steel Screws, screws without a crank.

Feel free to comment with some things you would like me to add or just your general thoughts about it. Thanks.

"Average" length and weight are meaningless. There are other screws you haven't listed e.g. the Grivel 720 Speedy. I don't know is that model is available in the US yet however. (They had a draw-equipped screw in the US a few years ago; I don't know what that was called)

I know I just wanted the numbers on there to show what I used to get the average g/cm

I think this would be better presented in spreadsheet. 

GunkieMike - That was the Helix Speedy as well as the 360 Speedy 

Why not have all the Grivel Screws under the "Advanced Steel" Category?  360? 

alpinejasonwrote:

I think this would be better presented in spreadsheet. 

I'm terrible at using spreadsheets so I did it in a doc

Graham Johnson - Done, I moved the "Interesting Steel Screws" into the Advanced category as they all have cranks. And for me I only have two screws visible on Grivel's website  Never mind I found their new screws under the coming soon category, will add those screws in later

Gunkiemike - I know that it's useless I just wanted to have it on there because I might as well

Bryce Dahlgrenwrote:

I know I just wanted the numbers on there to show what I used to get the average g/cm

But again, that's a meaningless average. Actual g/cm depends on length: shorter screws have higher specific mass.

its all meaningless.  what is important is how easy they start, how easy they go in and how much Ice they crack.   the weight is also important but only apples to apples. 10cm weighs this, 13 weighs that. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

its all meaningless.  what is important is how easy they start, how easy they go in and how much Ice they crack.   the weight is also important but only apples to apples. 10cm weighs this, 13 weighs that. 

That's subjective (somewhat) information. This is really no different than the cam comparison charts that get republished every 3 months. I think it's interesting to see side by side differences between manufacturers. I hope somebody doesn't build a rack off this information with mishmashed lightest screw at each length. Even if they do who cares?

alpinejasonwrote:

I hope somebody doesn't build a rack off this information with mishmashed lightest screw at each length. Even if they do who cares?

Here's the ice screw equivalent of that sort of Frankenrack:

Camp 9 cm, BD 10, (discontinued) OP 11, Grivel 12, Petzl 13, OMG I can't get a 14, (discontinued) Grivel Americana 15, BD Ultralight 16, Petzl LSL 17, (discontinued) CM Laser 18, BD 19, Grivel 20, Petzl LSL 21, BD 22.

And NO ONE would want to climb with that rack.

yup. too many long screws on it...   My short take from the last few seasons is the ultra light BDs are much harder to place than the Ultra light Petzl  The steel petzles worked awesome the first season that I had them but fractured Way too much ice the 2nd season. The BD stainless screws worked great when new and still worked well when not new. 

On the topic of placing screws, has anyone gotten the chance to use the new Petzl screws yet? I'm really interested to see how well 3 teeth work as opposed to 4.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

 The steel petzles worked awesome the first season that I had them but fractured Way too much ice the 2nd season. The BD stainless screws worked great when new and still worked well when not new. 

I've seen that too. Is the plating coming off around the tip? I suspect that may be part of the problem.

Bryce Dahlgrenwrote:

On the topic of placing screws, has anyone gotten the chance to use the new Petzl screws yet? I'm really interested to see how well 3 teeth work as opposed to 4.

Haven't had a chance to try one. Petzl is claiming better bite with its new 3 tooth design. Grivel is coming out with a 5 tooth design and claiming the same thing.

ice is a subjective medium. the hard numbers are not all that important because of all the variables. the more usefull information will be subjective.. how well does it work in the field.... 

I was able to use prototype three tooth Petzl screws along side the four tooth design last year. So same day, same ice. I definitely felt the new design was easier to start and place. Strictly anecdotal obviously. With that said I bought new Petzl screws this year to replace my older BD express screws. 

alpinejasonwrote:

I think this would be better presented in spreadsheet. 

good idea, can you make one for all of us?

DeLa Crucewrote:

good idea, can you make one for all of us?

Just update the charts in this article:

screw comparison spreadsheet

What I would be most interested in knowing in this kind of comparative database is the effective length of the threaded section and the load at which the screw/ice fails in pull/drop tests.

I think the EN ice screw safety standard doesn’t really do a good job of addressing performance in chandelier ice (unavoidable air pockets), where fully increasing the size and length of threads would provide a benefit.  Laboratory ice is not at all representative of realistic worst case conditions.  I would buy fully threaded 16-17cm screws for climbing chandelier ice, if they were available for sale.  

It is also really weird that sub-13cm screws don’t have any kind of load rating.  No one uses stubby screws for “aid” or “progression” only.  Stubby screws are used primarily for lead fall protection.  

Karl Henizewrote:

What I would be most interested in knowing in this kind of comparative database is the effective length of the threaded section and the load at which the screw/ice fails in pull/drop tests.

I think the EN ice screw safety standard doesn’t really do a good job of addressing performance in chandelier ice (unavoidable air pockets), where fully increasing the size and length of threads would provide a benefit.  Laboratory ice is not at all representative of realistic worst case conditions.  I would buy fully threaded 16-17cm screws for climbing chandelier ice, if they were available for sale.  

It is also really weird that sub-13cm screws don’t have any kind of load rating.  No one uses stubby screws for “aid” or “progression” only.  Stubby screws are used primarily for lead fall protection.  

IIRC BD made some special screws for Will Gadd that were threaded all the way up the tube.

Is length provide by the manufacture/weight a fair measure? The state lenght by manufacturers are not really the same. My BD 22cm is the same length as my Petzl 21cm.