The Diamond

E Fwrote:

I completely agree, Derek. I recognize that it’s hard for people on the internet to tell how ready I am. I have spent a ton of time in the mountains, far more than what I’ve spent while climbing and do consider myself to have a good “mountain sense”. I’ve been climbing and learning with people far more experienced than me, and am not planning on just “getting guided up”. So again, I feel confident in what I DO know, and I appreciate trying to help me figure out what I DON’T know. 

That's good to hear. In that case, same advice. Go get that granite mileage, do a half dozen other alpine routes throughout the summer, and see what happens come August or September. Even if you don't top out the Diamond, I'd be willing to bet you have a hell of a good time doing all the prep climbing. Good luck.

Directissima on chasm view wall is a nice stepping stone route. While technically it's harder than the casual route, it is more bite size is almost every other way: the route is shorter and the line is uber straight forward, the approach and descent are significantly less involved, and because of the aspect that whole wall is "in season" much sooner than much of the diamond (plus it doesn't seep as much). On top of that, I thought the route was totally worthy in its own right and I really enjoyed it (fwiw I would repeat directissima, I would not go out of my way to repeat the casual route). I wish it got more traffic. As a bonus, you get to scope out the area, time how long it takes you to hike up to the snowfield at the base of the north chimney, etc. Have fun up there, be safe, and be very ready to bail before you even start climbing if it looks like a gong show. The trophy hunting mentality can lead to a lot of snafus that are irritating in a chill setting and downright dangerous in a high alpine environment.

Having attempted the Casual Route as my first alpine climb I am of the opinion that is a terrible idea and it should be worked up to with some easier alpine adventures first 

E Fwrote:

This past summer I met two women on the cables route who were rapping down and had just completed the casual route (they were on their way to finishing the last leg of the LP triathlon!).

If these women are who I think they are, it may be worth noting that the person who led those pitches is a very, very skilled (and tough as nails) 5.12+ trad/5.13 sport climber who has spent a significant amount of time on the Diamond, in Zion, in the Black Canyon, etc. and in the high alpine in general. And even the person who followed – while maybe self-admittedly relatively new to trad – completed a rather significant number of high alpine routes this past summer.

Just don't forget to add in the North Chimney when you consider the question (or the Chasm View raps - but are those actually getting more popular?). That's the thing that keeps me personally up all night, even knowing I've scrambled all sorts of things at that grade on Longs and thought nothing really of it - largely because rocks aren't raining down on me.

 Superfluous photo of Charlie Fowler: 

T Gwrote:

If these women are who I think they are, it may be worth noting that the person who led those pitches is a very, very skilled (and tough as nails) 5.12+ trad/5.13 sport climber who has spent a significant amount of time on the Diamond, in Zion, in the Black Canyon, etc. and in the high alpine in general. And even the person who followed – while maybe self-admittedly relatively new to trad – completed a rather significant number of high alpine routes this past summer.

I second this.

Climbed the Diamond the first time 27 years ago one year into climbing. Limited mountain experience, strong sport(.11+) and decent trad(.9) experience at the time, with a more experienced partner. Got off route on the N Chimney and had to rope up.  Hammered by first hail storm after the traverse, second sleet/lightning storm after the 4th.   Learned to aid.  Rappelled with double water soaked 10+mm ropes from Table and got back down to the snow tongue at around 11pm.

So yea I think if you have a bit more sense, and a bit better luck, you should have no problem. 

Kevin Strickerwrote:

Climbed the Diamond the first time 27 years ago one year into climbing. Limited mountain experience, strong sport(.11+) and decent trad(.9) experience at the time, with a more experienced partner. Got off route on the N Chimney and had to rope up.  Hammered by first hail storm after the traverse, second sleet/lightning storm after the 4th.   Learned to aid.  Rappelled with double water soaked 10+mm ropes from Table and got back down to the snow tongue at around 11pm.

So yea I think if you have a bit more sense, and a bit better luck, you should have no problem. 

were there 50 other people on broadway, 20 of them waiting to start the casual, 27 years ago?

Kip Kasperwrote:

were there 50 other people on broadway, 20 of them waiting to start the casual, 27 years ago?

I climbed the casual route mid-week, in late September, 1987.  Bivied at Chasm view and had woke up to 2 others starting the raps.  We caught up and they let us go first.  But then a 3rd team blasted up the chimney and kept going.  But we caught up, and turns out I had met one of them bouldering a few weeks before, and he kindly let us pass.  So no, not 50 others, but not to ourselves either.   I had been climbing for 3 years, to keep it on topic.

Kip Kasperwrote:

were there 50 other people on broadway, 20 of them waiting to start the casual, 27 years ago?

I recall about 6 parties, but the weather was grim.  Fortunately a party bivied on Broadway ( don't see that often these days) fixed a rope across the steep snow on the far left side so we could get safely to the Crack of Delight raps.  One thing there was a lot more of then was snow on Broadway mid summer.

That photo of Charlie was taken by Alex Lowe... moments after the photo was taken he fell!!

Landed in a lot of snow at the bottom of the n chimney  and walked away Un harmed 

Soloing in winter with 80lb pack... Alex knocked a lot of snow onto Charlie causing him to teeter off

One of my favorite mountaineering photos ever. 

Do the Petit Grepon, the face of Spearhead, and Hallets before you compete w the hoards on the Diamond.  

Chasm View Wall is a great training option, as is the Flying Buttress.  If you can successfully and smoothly knock those out, you'll have a wee idea what youre getting into.  

You still will fail when you try the Diamond.  If you prove me wrong, l will mail you a cam off my rack.  On my honor.

The first time I touched The Diamond, I onsite free-soloed the Casual. 

I wonder how that would have gone if I'd asked the forum for advice.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsionwrote:

The first time I touched The Diamond, I onsite free-soloed the Casual. 

I wonder how that would have gone if I'd asked the forum for advice.

You definitely would have died.

Didn’t you do a 12+ gravelly OW roof crack FA that Summer in Jackson Creek/Splatte?  Not quite a first year novice. :p)

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsionwrote:

The first time I touched The Diamond, I onsite free-soloed the Casual. 

I wonder how that would have gone if I'd asked the forum for advice.

you waited a long time. this op fella is more willing to learn on it than learn before it

also you probably took advice from people you trusted, not just people who gave it

Eric,

  Go to Turkey Tail and project Whimsical Dreams or Drumstick Direct or both. Head to the creek, lead as many 10’s,and get on as many .11’s as you can TR or whatever. Go climb Country Club crack, go aid CCC, go aid solo CCC in the rain. Run up flatirons, climb 20 pitches in Eldo in a day, then in half a day. Go climb  Directessima in late May/early June. Send Casual in late June before the masses. Make a plan, find a partner, and do it. 

Kevin Strickerwrote:

Eric,

  Go to Turkey Tail and project Whimsical Dreams or Drumstick Direct or both. Head to the creek, lead as many 10’s,and get on as many .11’s as you can TR or whatever. Go climb Country Club crack, go aid CCC, go aid solo CCC in the rain. Run up flatirons, climb 20 pitches in Eldo in a day, then in half a day. Go climb  Directessima in late May/early June. Send Casual in late June before the masses. Make a plan, find a partner, and do it. 

AND THENNNNN solo the North Face of the Eiger, follow Steck's route up the South Face of Annapurna (solo of course), paddle your way back to the western hemisphere (also solo in a pack raft), complete the Ftiz Roy Traverse in running shoes, jog your raggedy *** back to Colorado, and then, maybe...just maybe... your worthy to climb the Casual Route......

Sorry... I had to. I couldn't help myself

LawHouswrote:

AND THENNNNN solo the North Face of the Eiger, follow Steck's route up the South Face of Annapurna (solo of course), paddle your way back to the western hemisphere (also solo in a pack raft), complete the Ftiz Roy Traverse in running shoes, jog your raggedy *** back to Colorado, and then, maybe...just maybe... your worthy to climb the Casual Route......

Sorry... I had to. I couldn't help myself

He's not wrong though. He gave an appropriate rundown of nearly exactly what it would take to turn a beginner into a moderately competent trad climber. 

E Fwrote:

Thanks everyone. This past summer I met two women on the cables route who were rapping down and had just completed the casual route (they were on their way to finishing the last leg of the LP triathlon!). One of them followed every pitch and told me she had been climbing trad for less than a year. Of course following is quite a bit different than leading, but still, hearing this of course made the goal seem pretty realistic. I’m confident in my sharp-end skill set, but will keep climbing as much as possible and see where I’m at when the weather is right. 

Her partner climbs 5.13 and she herself has the longs peak duathlon record in winter