UPDATED: Comfortable shoes that still have some precision at the toe?

UPDATE: I did some research and I think my pain is due to such narrow shoes with asymmetry pushing my big toe into my second toe (I have a bunion). With my big toe leaning in toward my second toe, the joints beneath the two toes and sometimes even the arch hurt.

I'm looking for suggestions .I wear Miuras (women’s lace-up size 37/US 6) and I love the way they climb. I love the stiff rubber at the toe for support, and I love the precision. 

However, I'm looking for more comfortable climbing shoes that still work for my style but on longer routes and indoors. I like technical sport climbing and bouldering. I don't crack climb. I lead single to two pitch routes, and I gravitate toward ones with overhangs. Ideally I'd find comfortable shoes that still have toe support and precision, but are flat enough to slab a little too. This pair doesn't need to be great for heel hooking. What would you suggest?

In order of importance:

1. Comfort (wider toe box)
2. Precision (still able to edge and stand on the toe with stiff rubber for support)
3. Not aggressively downturned
4. Lace-up and leather would be best

If it helps at all as a reference, I find the Miura VS more comfy than my go-to lace-ups, but I feel less confident in them. The Scarpa Furia Air kills my toes even in a 38/US 7. 

TC Pro, Moccasym, Tarantulace or Katana Lace?

Alaina Gwrote:

I would love some opinions on this. I wear Miuras (women’s, lace-up, size 37/US 6). They’re definitely my favorite, and although they kill my big toe after some hours I love climbing in them. I feel confident edging outdoors, they work well on overhanging boulders, and they fit my favorite style of climbing which is overhanging, technical, bouldering and single pitch sport.

I’m looking for a pair that hurts less for indoor climbing though, and definitely something more comfortable for any multi pitch climbing. I’ve tried:

Miura VS (women’s, 37/US 6) - almost more comfy than my go-to lace-ups, but I feel more confident in my lace-ups

Scarpa Furia Air (women’s, 38/US 7) - super painful toes when I put pressure on them, bought these because I like climbing barefoot indoors and thought I’d like more sensitivity but they kill

I have bunions and had broken my big toe in the past, causing chronic sesamoid bone pain. My toes are squished together when I take my climbing shoes off. Otherwise I think my sizing is right, if it weren’t for toe pain.

Would Mythos (women’s) be worth the investment for a comfier pair that works outside and can edge but maybe slab a bit too? Is there a more comfortable pair you’d recommend for toe pain that still performs? I don’t want to lose performance. When I train I go shoeless sometimes so if I’m buying shoes, I want them to work well on technical jibs etc. I don’t smear well in my Miuras. Would TC Pros or Moccs be better?

Lastly, what size would you say to get Mythos in if I wear 37 Miuras?

Moccasyms, tc pro, gambit, finale, anasazi is what I cycle through depending on grade and style for trad or indoor 

Personally I'd either go a half size up in your miura lace ups or try a pair of tcs

Alaina Gwrote:

I would love some opinions on this. I wear Miuras...

I should have known

I started wearing High Volume Butora Alturas about a year ago as a TC replacement and I love them. super stiff, great for edging and cracks, No size stretching. Hemp lining so after a year they still smell like new. Cheaper than TC's. I will probably keep buying or resoling these for as long as I can. 10/10 

I would recommend Scarpa Vapor V for similar performance benefits and more comfort (for my foot at least, not sized super tight). And they smear much better than my downsized Miura VS.

Rocrateswrote:

I should have known

Why’s that? 

Thanks everyone. I was thinking Moccs if not Mythos. 

I know TCs are pretty similar to the lace-up Miuras. I’ve thought about men’s but it’s only the toe box I need wider due to bunions, not the heels.

La Sportiva feels better for my feet than Scarpa. 

Alaina Gwrote:

Why’s that? 

Miuras are notoriously uncomfortable.

https://www.mountainproject.com/forum/topic/117265597/to-max

^8th comment down

I think my sizing is right, if it weren’t for toe pain.

I think your sizing is wrong.  I love my miuras.  Back when I was younger and dumber I would wear size 43.  Now I'm up to 44.5 and I wear them on long multi-pitch crack climbs.  Seriously just buy bigger shoes.

Did you try any Evolv shoes - some have reasonably wide toe boxes. Right now, I am recovering from some weird toe injury, amusingly Shamans, the most aggressive shoes I have, hurt the least

I have big bunions too, and I have same issue with my muiras, both laced and velcro(and most shoes lol, I can't even wear solutions of any size). I can wear them for a couple hours before they hurt. And my toes are jammed into each other when I'm done climbing. Literally molded to each other lol. I usually leave them loose around the first velcro, but I think my laced ones are more comfty even with being 1/2 size smaller (and the female version). 

My moccs are really comfy, but definitely don't perform like the muiras for certain types of climbing(they fuckin blow at heel hooks, for example). Since moccs are like an all day trad shoe, I would recommend looking into other all day trad shoes that would have higher ability to do well on sport climbs. Maybe the evolve generals would do well. 

Erik Strandwrote:

I have big bunions too, and I have same issue with my muiras, both laced and velcro(and most shoes lol, I can't even wear solutions of any size). I can wear them for a couple hours before they hurt. And my toes are jammed into each other when I'm done climbing. Literally molded to each other lol. I usually leave them loose around the first velcro, but I think my laced ones are more comfty even with being 1/2 size smaller (and the female version). 

My moccs are really comfy, but definitely don't perform like the muiras for certain types of climbing(they fuckin blow at heel hooks, for example). Since moccs are like an all day trad shoe, I would recommend looking into other all day trad shoes that would have higher ability to do well on sport climbs. Maybe the evolve generals would do well. 

Generals are ok, not that comfy of a toe box IMO.

I have come around on the TC Pros since getting a comfortably sized pair, I would recommend those over the Mocc. Moccs might have some benefits on certain styles like slab, but I prefer TC Pro with socks for all-around performance and comfort. Moccs get pretty soft quickly so they provide more sensitivity and smearability, while the TCs are stiff and feel clunkier. Generals felt even clunkier than the TC. They are a very heavy, well-made boot. Both smear fine once broken in, though the Mocc clearly has the advantage when it comes to smears.

Alaina Gwrote:

La Sportiva feels better for my feet than Scarpa. 

La Sportiva makes so many different lasts and shoe styles that I wouldn't assume they all fit your foot better than another brand. I have tried some Scarpas that hurt my toes in every size (Boostics, Instinct VS), while others like the Vapor V, Instinct S, and Mago feel very comfortable and have great performance. I favor the models with thinner rubber toe patch.

Have you tried Katana LUs? They are much more comfortable that Muiras for my feet. I always hated the old school tongue design on the Muiras and TC Pros. Mocs are ok, but don’t have nearly the same edging performance. Also, don’t size them too aggressively. I went a 1/2 size up on my Katanas and now they are downright comfy without sacrificing performance on all but the techiest of routes (I wear them a 1/2 size down from street). I wouldn’t get Mythos unless you want to resole them out of the box. The rubber just sucks.

Chris Fedorczakwrote:

Have you tried Katana LUs? They are much more comfortable that Muiras for my feet. I always hated the old school tongue design on the Muiras and TC Pros. Mocs are ok, but don’t have nearly the same edging performance. Also, don’t size them too aggressively. I went a 1/2 size up on my Katanas and now they are downright comfy without sacrificing performance on all but the techiest of routes (I wear them a 1/2 size down from street). I wouldn’t get Mythos unless you want to resole them out of the box. The rubber just sucks.

Mythos come with the same rubber as Katana Lace, Vibram XS Edge. The women’s Mythos come with XS Grip. Nothing wrong with either.

Sam Cieplywrote:

Mythos come with the same rubber as Katana Lace, Vibram XS Edge. The women’s Mythos come with XS Grip. Nothing wrong with either.

I stand corrected. They do. I could have sworn that older versions of the Mythos came with a harder rubber that just did not perform very well.

Updated…leaning toward TC Pro although Moccasym would be cheaper. Also curious about Katana Lace.

Alaina Gwrote:

Updated…leaning toward TC Pro although Moccasym would be cheaper. Also curious about Katana Lace.

Your top choices to replace Muiras are TC Pros and Moccasyms? That’s like trying to decide between a Range Rover and a Camry to replace a Porsche. Nothing wrong with any of them, but completely different shoes with different intended applications. If you’re seeking something similar to a Muira with a wider toe box, I strongly recommend you check out the Scarpa Instinct. I climbed in Muiras for many years but they just became too painful for me. I switched to the Instincts and haven’t looked back. Every bit of the Muira performance (and then some) in a dramatically more comfortable last for my foot. 

Derek Doucetwrote:

Your top choices to replace Muiras are TC Pros and Moccasyms? That’s like trying to decide between a Range Rover and a Camry to replace a Porsche. Nothing wrong with any of them, but completely different shoes with different intended applications. If you’re seeking something similar to a Muira with a wider toe box, I strongly recommend you check out the Scarpa Instinct. I climbed in Muiras for many years but they just became too painful for me. I switched to the Instincts and haven’t looked back. Every bit of the Muira performance (and then some) in a dramatically more comfortable last for my foot. 

Thanks! Not to replace them though. Just a more comfortable shoe for slightly more casual bouldering (gym) and sport (outdoor). I’m leaning toward Katana Lace? That might be more similar in terms of precision. I did hear TC Pros were similar to the Miura Laces too though, not sure where…

Auden Alsop wrote:

At the level you’re climbing at, having the most performance enhancing or tight shoe really doesn't matter. Unfortunately it’s Covid time but if you can, go to a gym or retail store and try on any and all models of shoes until you find one that fits your foot really well. Go with that. If it’s leather, maybe size down a bit to account for stretch. Don’t climb through pain, it isn’t worth it.

Second this, find a comfy allround shoe that fit your feet.

R Bridgewrote:

Second this, find a comfy allround shoe that fit your feet.

I agree with this in part- you certainly don’t need painfully tight shoes at this point. But having a pair of higher performance shoes helps learn what it’s possible to stand on. You can’t learn how little you can actually get by with if your shoes are rolling off every thing edge.