Poudre Canyon Fire eye witness info

Earlier this week I called the Forest Service about the fire closures in the Poudre.  If you don't know already, they've closed everything within the fire's perimeter, and even some places OUTSIDE of it. I was told there's fire break mitigation going on in many places (they try to erase bull-dozed fire lines), there are still hot spots, and it's still dangerous with Lions and Tigers and Bears! Imagine coming upon a tree fallen across the trail! Oh my, what would you do?

So I drove up to Cameron Pass yesterday. I was checking out the ski areas and the climbing areas.

Yes, a lot of areas have burned but a lot of areas within the "perimeter" have not. As you may have expected, there was a lot of mosaic-ing which is usual with natural fires.  In general, up and down the canyon, most areas in the bottom of the canyon did not burn.  The firefighters did a good job.  Rustic, Spencer Heights, Poudre City, etc. are fine. Most of the houses were saved, with the notable exception of two houses (one on stilts) below Boston Peak. 

The bottom line is that all the parking lots have been plowed but all have huge "closed to all uses" signs. There are NO firefighters or workers in the canyon except for one crew of phone/power guys restoring the poles and lines. I saw one spot, where some heavy equipment was parked, but it was well down the canyon below Poudre Falls.  There are no hot spots.

The Poudre Falls, Jungle, Astronomy and Boston Peak climbing areas were NOT burned.   There's a small area along the trail (100 yds?) that you'd need to hike through to get to the Poudre Falls crags.   The approach to Jungle and Astronomy look unburned.  There is a burned area below Boston Peak that you'd need to hike through but you can see green trees all around Boston Peak.   The 420 Boulders area did burn (mostly grass), but I saw three cars parked there (no orange tape or signs) and people illegally bouldering which is traditional there ;-)

So the Forest Service is pulling the same bullshit again as they did after the High Park Fire in 2013.  If you remember, they closed the Triple Tier area, Crystal Wall and the Palace for over a year even though NOTHING burned; not the parking lots, not the trails, not the crag areas.   I'm going to find the correct person to contact in order to protest, and I'll post that information here when I get it. I'm really fucking tired of government agencies treating me like I'm stupid and incompetent, and trying to protect me from non-existent dangers.  And the lying.  Really fucking tired of the lying.

Fight the power man.

John Byrneswrote:

Earlier this week I called the Forest Service about the fire closures in the Poudre.  If you don't know already, they've closed everything within the fire's perimeter, and even some places OUTSIDE of it. I was told there's fire break mitigation going on in many places (they try to erase bull-dozed fire lines), there are still hot spots, and it's still dangerous with Lions and Tigers and Bears! Imagine coming upon a tree fallen across the trail! Oh my, what would you do?

So I drove up to Cameron Pass yesterday. I was checking out the ski areas and the climbing areas.

Yes, a lot of areas have burned but a lot of areas within the "perimeter" have not. As you may have expected, there was a lot of mosaic-ing which is usual with natural fires.  In general, up and down the canyon, most areas in the bottom of the canyon did not burn.  The firefighters did a good job.  Rustic, Spencer Heights, Poudre City, etc. are fine. Most of the houses were saved, with the notable exception of two houses (one on stilts) below Boston Peak. 

The bottom line is that all the parking lots have been plowed but all have huge "closed to all uses" signs. There are NO firefighters or workers in the canyon except for one crew of phone/power guys restoring the poles and lines. I saw one spot, where some heavy equipment was parked, but it was well down the canyon below Poudre Falls.  There are no hot spots.

The Poudre Falls, Jungle, Astronomy and Boston Peak climbing areas were NOT burned.   There's a small area along the trail (100 yds?) that you'd need to hike through to get to the Poudre Falls crags.   The approach to Jungle and Astronomy look unburned.  There is a burned area below Boston Peak that you'd need to hike through but you can see green trees all around Boston Peak.   The 420 Boulders area did burn (mostly grass), but I saw three cars parked there (no orange tape or signs) and people illegally bouldering which is traditional there ;-)

So the Forest Service is pulling the same bullshit again as they did after the High Park Fire in 2013.  If you remember, they closed the Triple Tier area, Crystal Wall and the Palace for over a year even though NOTHING burned; not the parking lots, not the trails, not the crag areas.   I'm going to find the correct person to contact in order to protest, and I'll post that information here when I get it. I'm really fucking tired of government agencies treating me like I'm stupid and incompetent, and trying to protect me from non-existent dangers.  And the lying.  Really fucking tired of the lying.

The Forest Service just doesn't have the resources to go to every area and evaluate if the should open it, so they opt for blanket bans.  The people I talked to emphasized that the closures are more so regarding safety with falling trees and stuff, not for avoiding traffic.  Jungle wall certainly has burned trees at the base.  420s is on CPW land and was never closed, not illegal to climb there.  

Also, pass me whatever you're smoking. B peak definitely got torched.

Not saying I don't agree with a lot of what your saying though.  The FS is such bs

I get frustrated with the Forrest Service when the information you need is so flipping hard to find. They state that areas are closed and they provide a map but click on the map and zoom in to see the details and it's about as clear as mud. So if I go to a place and there are no signs or information being specific then they have not a reason to be upset with people being there. It's like some getting mad you're on their land but they don't have any boundaries marked or signs saying "no trespassing" 

The land may be closed, but at least the land belongs to aLL oF Us. Good thing there are Agents Of The State to keep us away from Our Lands, because of reasons. Sure don't know how we'd ever figure out how to manage such things ourselves. I say let's just put them in charge of everything then we won't have to ever worry about things again. 

For all those hating on the forest service: be aware of what happens in states like TX where 97+ percent of land is privately owned and most of the climbing sits on someone's ranch where you'll get shot at for trespassing, So keep in mind the alternative...

Andrew Pwrote:

For all those hating on the forest service: be aware of what happens in states like TX where 97+ percent of land is privately owned and most of the climbing sits on someone's ranch where you'll get shot at for trespassing, So keep in mind the alternative...

Or the Red River and access to areas gets threatened when someone parks in the wrong spot.

We have a collection of great crags down in the Wet Mountains that were burned by a forest fire over five years ago. The road into the area is still fucking closed. Who knows when the forest service will open that up again?

I think the majority of the folks in the forest service genuinely want to do what is best for the public lands but they have been underfunded for quite some time now. I suggest calling your elected officials, ask them to tax the ultra rich, reduce the defense budget and increase funding for public lands since they are something we all enjoy. 

Nice, Sam. Finally a good suggestion.  

We had a road closure affecting shoulder season climbing up in a canyon ... because the forest service lacked funds to service the campground at road’s end. 

Tim Stichwrote:

We have a collection of great crags down in the Wet Mountains that were burned by a forest fire over five years ago. The road into the area is still fucking closed. Who knows when the forest service will open that up again?

The answer likely is "never". Forest roads that were closed after fires in several parts of the South Platte (e.g., Buffalo Creek and vicinity) are still not open a couple decades later. They often claim lack of resources, and maybe they are right. I suppose we could start a "contact your congressman" campaign.

John Byrneswrote:

I'm really fucking tired of government agencies treating me like I'm stupid and incompetent, and trying to protect me from non-existent dangers.  And the lying.  Really fucking tired of the lying.

And eating indoors no matter how few people are in there is deadly.  You can eat outside till 10.  But, if you have a drink after 8 you will certainly die.  My point, government is here to save you. Now put your mask back on and go home.  It's for your own good.  

Jon Welch wrote:

Well, one of "us" MANAGED to burn it all down.  To bad the agents weren't able to catch whoever lit it up.

Pointing out that the State failed to prevent and/or catch the culprit isn't a very good sales pitch for the State.

Jonathan Swrote:

The answer likely is "never". Forest roads that were closed after fires in several parts of the South Platte (e.g., Buffalo Creek and vicinity) are still not open a couple decades later. They often claim lack of resources, and maybe they are right. I suppose we could start a "contact your congressman" campaign.

This road is an alternative to Hardscrabble Pass, so it's pretty significant. I was hoping they would open the area after five years like they did to the Waldo Canyon area, but no dice so far.

Jon Welch wrote:

The only way to prevent one is to prevent idiots from having access. You know as well as I do, that they try to trust us to not be idiots, It only takes one. So, to your argument, in this case,  the individual failed. Not the agency Only the users can prevent fires. And like mask, it only takes one person to contaminate everyone else, undoing all their efforts to prevent the spread and to get things opened back up.

Prevention is a moot point and is what got us into this mess.  Fire is a natural and important part of forest ecosystems.  The Forest Service was started to manage our forests for timber production and fires have been suppressed in North America for over a century.  The forests are going to burn at some point whether it be human or natural causes.  The focus should be on proper forest management with historic fire regimes.

Jon Welch wrote:

The only way to prevent one is to prevent idiots from having access. You know as well as I do, that they try to trust us to not be idiots, It only takes one. 

If that were a valid argument, all roads and highways would have to be shut down to prevent death from car accidents as well as all climbing areas to prevent injury and death from climbing.  Humans make mistakes, often.  Some of these mistakes affect just a few, some affect many.   

So, to your argument, in this case,  the individual failed. Not the agency Only the users can prevent fires. 

Fires are sparked by natural and artificial reasons.  Humans are not the only source.  The question really is, do government agencies manage these resources making them more or less susceptible to massive fires by any cause.  Restrict logging too much, then there is too much fuel waiting for a human caused or natural caused disaster.  Put out the micro fires too often, the fuel source grows.  Eventually, the big one is coming when droughts, excess fuel, and a spark, natural or artificial arrives.   Enter the perfect storm, all the ingredients are just right.  The year of disasters, 2020.  

That picture of BPeak is a bummer, did the upper area by foreplay burn too? 

Dustin Bwrote:

That picture of BPeak is a bummer, did the upper area by foreplay burn too? 

The photo was taken from below Indian Meadows and shows the "downstream" side of Boston Peak.  The other side of the peak, the side you can see from the road directly below the peak, and where the climbing is, did not burn.  You can see green trees all around it, although you'll have to hike through a burned section to get there.  

John Byrneswrote:

The photo was taken from below Indian Meadows and shows the "downstream" side of Boston Peak.  The other side of the peak, the side you can see from the road directly below the peak, and where the climbing is, did not burn.  You can see green trees all around it, although you'll have to hike through a burned section to get there.  

How about the falls area like south wall and white wave wall. Those have some decent routes. You said that the burn was not complete there? Such a shame this happened. It's one of my favorite places in CO to be. Lots of wild life.

Was just in the canyon yesterday up to the Narrows area, and this is almost not evidence of burned forrest.