Poached draws in flatirons

Claudine Longetwrote:

It belongs to the City of Boulder.

I'm glad somebody gets it... Federal land should should primarily serve the interests of US residents (not foreign tourists, though they tend to open their wallets, so that does serve US interest indirectly), state land primarily for state residents, and local land primarily for local residents. OSMP does not charge non-resident for its use (unlike say, Rifle Mountain Park), and if you also aren't involved in route development/maintenance, well then, you aren't & shouldn't get a lot of say.

rebootwrote:

Pretty sure OSMP isn't financing itself from taxes collected by a Broomfield resident.

It's from sales tax, so buy some new QD's at Neptunes to help support OSMP. I would wager the relationship with climbers and the OSMP is quite good at the moment, if we look at things historically, but climbing isn't something actually listed as a use that's protected in the OSMP charter. Bicycling is, which is madness given what access there is for cyclists, but not climbing. It's best to treat lightly and work within the frameworks so delicately put in place. Historically, it was the hiking clubs that climbed the Flatirons, so it sort of gets a grandfathered in pass as an acceptable use. That's also why fixed pro ain't kosher (historical reasons). It's all quite drab and boring history that I cannot get enough in learning about:

https://bouldercolorado.gov/osmp/rock-climbing

rebootwrote:

Pretty sure OSMP isn't financing itself from taxes collected by a Broomfield resident.

Definitely not me.  

Peter Bealwrote:

The official policy of OSMP is no fixed draws. The Flatirons Climbing Council is working with OSMP on designating certain areas for fixed draws. Please don't leave your draws up on routes right now.

It's almost laughable the OP doesn't realize his draws were most likely removed because of this - and completely unapologetic.  I guess these days it's likely only a few around can remember the Flatirons being closed to bolting and even fewer that can remember why.

Bill Schickwrote:

It's almost laughable the OP doesn't realize his draws were most likely removed because of this - and completely unapologetic.  I guess these days it's likely only a few around can remember the Flatirons being closed to bolting and even fewer that can remember why.

Fewer can remember when leaving draws up was an invitation to have them stolen as a matter of course. Personally I prefer having my own draws on a route to rando draws of unknown condition or permadraws that aren't the right length or  oriented the wrong way for clipping. Plus they suck to grab. Some routes are truly too steep for easy cleaning but I don't know how many routes along the Front Range really qualify for that designation.

rebootwrote:

Pretty sure OSMP isn't financing itself from taxes collected by a Broomfield resident.

To L Lap:

There's no winning an argument on the internet. But since you mentioned the OSMP rule, I'd like to point out as a (hopefully voting) Boulder resident you have actual influence over the said rule than an user from a neighboring town.

OSMP is funded in part by parking fees imposed on vehicles not registered in Boulder County. Broomfield is not in Boulder County.

PRRosewrote:

OSMP is funded in part by parking fees imposed on vehicles not registered in Boulder County. Broomfield is not in Boulder County.

This may be true, but I don't know if I see it on the funding breakdown page: 

https://www.bouldercounty.org/open-space/management/funding-sources/

I wanna say that any $$$ coming in from parking is used to fund the (free) shuttle to Chautauqua, but it's still run at a loss. I'm not going to take a stab on how that all looks like in the accounting ledger, as I'm already swimming well away from the kiddie area.

Also a little correction on my part, as some of the funding does come from property tax, ~$4 million/year. The total budge for 2019 was $29,640,763 (so 13% from property tax).

This year's budget/funding/expenses is all over the place, as sales tax revenue is way down for some reason or another.

Long Rangerwrote:

This may be true, but I don't know if I see it on the funding breakdown page: 

https://www.bouldercounty.org/open-space/management/funding-sources/

I wanna say that any $$$ coming in from parking is used to fund the (free) shuttle to Chautauqua, but it's still run at a loss. I'm not going to take a stab on how that all looks like in the accounting ledger, as I'm already swimming well away from the kiddie area.

Also a little correction on my part, as some of the funding does come from property tax, ~$4 million/year. The total budge for 2019 was $29,640,763 (so 13% from property tax).

This year's budget/funding/expenses is all over the place, as sales tax revenue is way down for some reason or another.

I think the page you link to is primarily explaining the acquisition budget, not the operating budget. Note that the acquisition budget is funded in part from some sources that are not Boulder-specific, such as state lottery funds, grants, and some federal dollars.

The county budget is funded almost entirely by property taxes, sales taxes, fees, and some state and federal revenue-sharing. As someone noted elsewhere in the thread, non-Boulder climbers pay Boulder sales taxes when they spend money in Boulder (which, of course, many climbers do by shopping at Neptune or (gasp!) REI, as well as in pre- and post-climbing bars and restaurants). The state and federal revenue sharing comes from state-wide sales and income taxes, and federal income taxes, which are not solely paid by Boulder residents.

I singled out the parking fees because they are a direct fee imposed on out-of-county users of Boulder Open Space.  I don't know if the fees fund the shuttle--they have been in effect for years, whereas the shuttle is fairly new.

Bottom line is that non-Boulder residents who climb in Boulder County do, in fact, contribute to OSMP's budget by paying taxes and fees. The premise that  "OSMP isn't financing itself from taxes collected by a Broomfield resident" (sic) is thus false, and accordingly the claim that Marc H. doesn't have a voice in how Flatirons climbing is managed because he is a Broomfield resident is invalid.

Peter Bealwrote:

Fewer can remember when leaving draws up was an invitation to have them stolen as a matter of course. 

There are some up on Beware the Future at the moment.  Have at it.

Xamwrote:

There are some up on Beware the Future at the moment.  Have at it.

Only when the poison ivy dies off hahaha

I climbed The Hunger and Super Cream. I was Tired at the end of the day, coming back to climb it the next, and the draws were already up and I intended to return to send or take them down if I didn’t. A night, or even two, being up doesn’t warrant theft. The idea that the climbing community can’t distinguish between draws up very temporarily on a climb that’s barely visible to hikers, and permadraws or long term project draws is a little ridiculous to me. I don’t think that “because a lot of people do it” is a great argument that absolves me of my actions, but let’s get real. Some self righteous social justice warrior/draw narc decided to be annoying and now my draws, as well as a few other peoples, are missing. Hundreds of dollars in gear has been stolen from good people, and though I may be living in boulder I can’t afford to go out and replace them this second. It’s a dink move that I’d understand and just accept if they were left for us at one of the locally agreed upon shame locations, but thus far they are nowhere to be found. This isn’t a bolt chopping war or some great ethical dilemma, it’s straight robbery. You want a real issue, focus on chalk bags clipped to gear loops or the fact that Mythos still exist.

Don’t worry I’ve given up on getting my draws back and have returned to bouldering. A world with far fewer pushed up noses, and far more chill.

Please keep commenting. 

My sends are fueled by your misguided anger, along with your comments that will inevitably end up in the empty void with your rope climbing, belaygul wearing, non-petzl-brand-belay-device toting, hyper-lightweight-everything buying, non-skate-shoe wearing, trad-dad-with-no-cam being, lover of the death of joy, and all that the rain promises and more, souls.

I was tired is a weak excuse. Not so tired you couldn't come back the next day? You left them, some jerk stole them. Live and learn. 

If you had explained your situation in the OP and not come across as threatening (dude! that avatar) you may have got them back. 

Shame locations. That's hilarious. Has that what Boulder has become? " Hey man, let me take your draws down for you so I can drop them off at a Shame location ".

Exactly why anyone with any sense left Boulder by 1990.

Parachute Adamswrote:

I was tired is a weak excuse. Not so tired you couldn't come back the next day? You left them, some jerk stole them. Live and learn. 

If you had explained your situation in the OP and not come across as threatening (dude! that avatar) you may have got them back. 

Shame locations. That's hilarious. Has that what Boulder has become? " Hey man, let me take your draws down for you so I can drop them off at a Shame location ".

Exactly why anyone with any sense left Boulder by 1990.

Bro, you need to punt that attitude out of here. I've been tracking this thread for a minute and it's the absolute worst about the climbing community. This forum is generally full of self righteous trolls like you; which is no surprise people go on the defensive first line out the gate, sarcastically or not: MP forums are toxic. 

Your inability to understand the nuance in Bubba's language is not the fuel to your fire, contrarily to what you think: You're dense and that's a you-problem. Shaming someone for having gear stolen makes you a dick, not an illuminati. Not cutting him some slack on his language because he's pissed he got gear stolen, makes you a dick, and not at all empathetic. Same applies to the other idiots here causing a fuss about draws left at a crag that's a talus field away from hikers and 30m from the nearest parking lot. It's 2020 and we don't need any more crybabies getting the largest share of the voice. Get real and get upset about real issues. 

**Trigger Warning**

All sport climbers wear chacos.

Chet Stocktonwrote:

**Trigger Warning**

All sport climbers wear chacos.

U single? HMU.

Big Bubbawrote:

 non-skate-shoe wearing

Blasphemy I say!!!!!   Sticky rubber is great but it will never match the comfort of my Globe moonboots. They won't edge to save my life but they do work in wider handcracks surprisingly.

Lol - go back to the east coast where you belong.

Insert your favorite "Not this shit again meme" ...

"You want a real issue, focus on chalk bags clipped to gear loops or the fact that Mythos still exist."

This is something I can get behind.