Wasatch Guide

I've been trying to get ahold of Willie Benegas to do some guided climbing in BCC/LCC (I'm in SLC for work), but have been unsuccessful.  Does anyone have a recommendation for a good guide who might have some availability this Friday or Saturday (9/25-26?)  I can do 1 on 1 or join an anchor or trad class if there's room.  Or if someone wants to put up with my gumbiness (returning to climbing after a long break), I'd love to meet you at the crag.  I'm about to be the owner of a decent trad rack and am traveling with all my other gear except a rope. I'll buy lunch and/or dinner and beers after.

Unless Willie has an arrangement with UMA ( utahmountainadventures.com) or Red River ( redriveradventures.com) I am not sure how he is legally guiding in the Wasatch. 

That aside contact UMA or Red River they might have someone available.

Allen Sandersonwrote:

Unless Willie has an arrangement with UMA ( utahmountainadventures.com) or Red River ( redriveradventures.com) I am not sure how he is legally guiding in the Wasatch.

There's a guiding regulation in the Wasatch???

Marc801 Cwrote:

There's a guiding regulation in the Wasatch???

On any public land in these United States.

Brian in SLCwrote:

On any public land in these United States.

Why? What regulation says this is a law?

No idea if his schedule allows it, but I had a great guiding experience with Quino Gonzalez when I had an extra day in SLC a few years back. I think he works with Utah Mountain Adventures.

Utilizing public lands for commercial purposes requires a commercial use permit issued by the managing agency. Whether one is doing commercial photography, guiding, grazing, timber harvesting, mining, etc. These laws are written into the CFRs. 

https://www.fs.usda.gov/working-with-us/contracts-commercial-permits/special-use-permit-application

Nick Battagliawrote:

Why? What regulation says this is a law?

Really?  Why?  Because land managers are mandated as part of their job to manage their lands.

Code of Federal Regulations.

Thanks for all the info. I'm going to crash a multi pitch clinic and get a little climbing in and hopefully learn a thing or two.

Brian in SLCwrote:

Really?  Why?  Because land managers are mandated as part of their job to manage their lands.

Code of Federal Regulations.

Seems like it just creates a laughably high barrier to entry for a service that hundreds or thousands of climbers in the Utah area could pretty easily provide. What's the "greater good"?

The greater good are those that benefit from a regulation that culls out those who could only pass a laughably low barrier.

Brian in SLCwrote: The greater good are those that benefit from a regulation that culls out those who could only pass a laughably low barrier.

No, it culls out them and many, many very technical proficient and fit climbers. Buyer beware is kinda a thing all throughout society.

Nick Battagliawrote:

No, it culls out them and many, many very technical proficient and fit climbers. Buyer beware is kinda a thing all throughout society.

Take your bullshit somewhere else Nick. 

Jason Shumakerwrote:

Take your bullshit somewhere else Nick. 

Hahaha yikes.

Nick Battagliawrote:

No, it culls out them and many, many very technical proficient and fit climbers. Buyer beware is kinda a thing all throughout society.

A good climber does not necessarily a good guide make.

As for regulation, it covers all commercial enterprise on public land because our collective tax dollars go to fund that land, so anyone profiting from it should ideally be competent and give a bit back. It also provides for environmental protections as appropriate. 

The barrier to entry for guiding is far lower than for extraction (mining, logging, etc.), permanent structures and landscape changes (ex. ski resort), etc. Guiding applications and permits are fairly straightforward on many ranger districts, though the Wasatch is pretty ornery about guiding in general. Nationally, guiding regulations look they could get a bit more chill in the future, though.

Finally, in addition to UMA and Red River, a number of guides around SLC work through the Certified Guides Cooperative, which also holds a permit.

Derek DeBruinwrote:

Finally, in addition to UMA and Red River, a number of guides around SLC work through the Certified Guides Cooperative, which also holds a permit.

According to what they have listed on their website Certified Guides Cooperative does not have a permit for any National Forest in Utah cgcoop.org/permits.aspx

Allen Sandersonwrote:

According to what they have listed on their website Certified Guides Cooperative does not have a permit for any National Forest in Utah cgcoop.org/permits.aspx

True, but the website is a bit out of date. I can attest firsthand that the CGC has a Wasatch permit as I've used it to guide (and of course carried a copy while working). The AMGA also sometimes has a winter permit to run a Ski Guide Course.

Thanks for that detail, helps to know who is legal vs rogue.

Allen Sandersonwrote:

Thanks for that detail, helps to know who is legal vs rogue.

Sure thing. And I definitely agree!

ubuwrote:

No idea if his schedule allows it, but I had a great guiding experience with Quino Gonzalez when I had an extra day in SLC a few years back. I think he works with Utah Mountain Adventures.

I got to spend my day with Quino in a multi pitch course with just me and another guy.  4 pitches up, 3 raps down.  I hit a spot at the crux of the 5.7 route that was challenging to me and had me questioning my life choices, but I didn't bail and didn't get rescued so it all worked out.  Trial by fire, I guess.  Quino is a good dude and an extremely experienced mountaineer, backcountry skier and guide.  I will definitely ask for him by name when I need a guide or some training.

I know this topic is old but the info is necessary. Willie has been getting permits/CUA from the local USFS district via Wasatch Mountain Guides since 2017, where he is a co-owner. There are multiple guide operations here, so it's not singled to UMA and Red River.