Red Rock to begin reservations to better control crowds

I have lifehacked the solution.

John Hegyeswrote:

Will, did John Asselin of the BLM give a timeline on the removal of those signs? I was just out there on Highway 159 and as of right now the signs are still there at First Creek and South Oak Creek. I sense a lack of urgency on this issue which is distressing because the BLM seem to have no problem springing new rules on us with little warning.

Regarding the new reservation system for the Loop Road, I honestly think we need to seek higher authority here. I understand out-of-towners don't really care, but closing Red Rock like this is a slap in the face to the locals. How dare the the BLM cordon off this landscape? This should not stand. There needs to be protest here. There was no comment period. I'm baffled that Save Red Rock and Friends of Red Rock and Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition have been apparently blindsided. Those groups never spoke a peep about this, so I guess the BLM thinks they can drop the hammer down but there needs to be some recourse. I'm calling my US Congresswoman tomorrow, most definitely. The Clark County Commissioners need to be approached and they need to try to intervene. It's not fair for the locals to have their backyard subject to these restrictions. Many people moved here because of the relatively unfettered access to Red Rock. We are really getting screwed here.

By all means, there needs to be full accountability here with this new system. Who developed the plan? What laws say they can do this? What are the relevant numbers involved - how many reservation slots per day? How many commercial vendors will be permitted to evade the reservation system? Where does the $2 reservation fee go? What studies were done to justify this? Why is the reservation system seven days a week when it only gets crowded on the weekends and holidays?

Edit to add: this IS an access issue and the Access Fund SHOULD get involved.

The FAQ says reservations will be available up until the time of entry, as long as they don't get reserved in advance.  https://www.redrockcanyonlv.org/wp-content/uploads/rrnca-timed-entry-faq-2020.pdf
Also, if you enter before 8am or after 5pm it seems like you don't need a reservation.  

John Hegyeswrote:

Will, did John Asselin of the BLM give a timeline on the removal of those signs? I was just out there on Highway 159 and as of right now the signs are still there at First Creek and South Oak Creek. I sense a lack of urgency on this issue which is distressing because the BLM seem to have no problem springing new rules on us with little warning.

Regarding the new reservation system for the Loop Road, I honestly think we need to seek higher authority here. I understand out-of-towners don't really care, but closing Red Rock like this is a slap in the face to the locals. How dare the the BLM cordon off this landscape? This should not stand. There needs to be protest here. There was no comment period. I'm baffled that Save Red Rock and Friends of Red Rock and Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition have been apparently blindsided. Those groups never spoke a peep about this, so I guess the BLM thinks they can drop the hammer down but there needs to be some recourse. I'm calling my US Congresswoman tomorrow, most definitely. The Clark County Commissioners need to be approached and they need to try to intervene. It's not fair for the locals to have their backyard subject to these restrictions. Many people moved here because of the relatively unfettered access to Red Rock. We are really getting screwed here.

By all means, there needs to be full accountability here with this new system. Who developed the plan? What laws say they can do this? What are the relevant numbers involved - how many reservation slots per day? How many commercial vendors will be permitted to evade the reservation system? Where does the $2 reservation fee go? What studies were done to justify this? Why is the reservation system seven days a week when it only gets crowded on the weekends and holidays?

Edit to add: this IS an access issue and the Access Fund SHOULD get involved.

I emailed John Asselin this morning and received a pathetic form letter as a response. He was not interested in addressing any of my specific concerns whatsoever.  Just as you mentioned many people (me and my wife included, 6 years ago) moved to Las Vegas for the unfettered access to Red Rock.  Theres no way that this can be done without any public comment period, or no consultation with any of the local advocacy groups or the climbers coalition.  This will not go down without a fight. 

I implore all locals who love Red Rock to call Catherine Cortez Masto's office, Jacky Rosen's office, Dina Titus' office, the BLM, The Access Fund, Friends of Red Rock Canyon, Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition, etc.  Anyone who will listen and may be able to assist or exercise their influence in at least partially amending this nonsense.

JaredGwrote:

The FAQ says reservations will be available up until the time of entry, as long as they don't get reserved in advance.  https://www.redrockcanyonlv.org/wp-content/uploads/rrnca-timed-entry-faq-2020.pdf
Also, if you enter before 8am or after 5pm it seems like you don't need a reservation.  

That section from the FAQ is quoted below:

The reservation system does allow for some limited last-minute reservations. They typically sell out very quickly. Reservations will go on sale 1 days prior and will be available up to the timed entry window they are for, provided they have not been sold out. Those reservations will go on sale at 8 a.m. one day prior to the date of visit, but again, these are selling out rapidly.

It sounds a little like gibberish to me - what does this mean: "reservations will go on sale 1 days prior"? 

Also where it says, "these are selling out rapidly", how is that possible, because this system doesn't get rammed through until next month?

The notion that we can evade the reservation system by entering after 5pm doesn't fly because, for 4 months of the year, the Loop Road closes at 5pm.

The crowding is only an issue occasionally. Weekends and holidays. Why are we being penalized every day of the week?

Like. Yos, JT it is another zoo.  

There are a number of things about this that are bullshit:

• Anyone booking a reservation online will be charged a $2 fee per reservation even if you have a National Parks Pass.
• People will be more inclined to climb or hike on wet rock since they had to make a reservation in advance.  Depending on how many passes are available per day and how quick they sell out this will absolutely be a problem.  
• Parking along the road, in Red Springs, Kraft, Oak Creek, etc outside the park will become even worse.
• Tourists who just drive the scenic drive and take their one photo sitting on the rock at the first pullout and at the Red Rock Canyon sign along the road are not going to know about the reservation required and still clog up the entrance

Interesting. A Federal agency taking unilateral action without taking input from the community? Whoever could have guessed that this might happen. 

The BLM guy from page 2 said they were taking action to prioritize conservation at the Red Rock Canyon National Conservation Area. Honestly, I think this is fine. Red Rocks is being beaten to death by hordes of people. However, they never should have built that loop road if they were serious about conservation. It sucks that they let it get to this point before taking action to curb the destruction of the land there.

Can they even enforce parking along the side of the highway?(not talking about the paved parking lots)....its not their jurisdiction, its NDOT/NHP's 

Big Bwrote:

Can they even enforce parking along the side of the highway?(not talking about the paved parking lots)....its not their jurisdiction, its NDOT/NHP's 

I think it would depend on landownership/management agreements, and where the highway right of way is. The fact that they have taken down the signs in the past makes me think that they do, in fact, manage those pull outs.

Dave K wrote:

There is very likely no specific law passed by congress that has anything to do with these changes. Congress sets the high-level policy like budgets, how the land can be used, etc. through the laws. These laws rarely have specifics like reservation policies or the hours a facility is open, etc. 

Nonetheless, agency managers can be susceptible to pressure and publicity brought to bear by members of one's congressional delegation, e.g., USPS. It's never a bad idea to make sure that the people you elect know about what's being done by the people you don't.

Adam Wwrote:

There are a number of things about this that are bullshit:

• Anyone booking a reservation online will be charged a $2 fee per reservation even if you have a National Parks Pass.

Money in the pockets of BAH. That couldn't possibly be relevant here.

Dave K wrote:

You're asking what the Access Fund is doing with the money you never donated?

Dave so nice of you to notice my comment, I’m flattered!

No I don’t give my money to the Access Fund anymore. I stopped giving them support when it became apparent they were not interested In fighting legal battles on climbers behalf. Back when Williamson got closed - for dubious reasons I might add- the AF proved they are a toothless entity. They really are a bunch of Boulder based lawyers more interested in trail maintenance than taking a government or private agency to court.

But thanks again, I truly am honored to have my little thoughts noticed by someone as notable as you. 

Big Bwrote:

Can they even enforce parking along the side of the highway?(not talking about the paved parking lots)....its not their jurisdiction, its NDOT/NHP's 

In New York there was a specific distance from the center line for each roadway class, which usually extended to several feet off the road/shoulder.  I'm thinking there's a similar Nevada law.

Kevin Heckelerwrote:

In New York there was a specific distance from the center line for each roadway class, which usually extended to several feet off the road/shoulder.  I'm thinking there's a similar Nevada law.

yes, there's a public easement on the shoulder of public roads.

Both Representative Steven Horsford and Representative Susie Lee preside over Red Rock Canyon, in Nevada's 4th district.  Its worth giving "them" a call.  Our Senators Jacky Rosen and Catherine Cortez Masto as well.  Also somebody by the name of Katie Goodwin at the Access Fund is apparently working on this issue as well.  Even if you don't think this will do anything, its worth a try.  Please voice your concerns.  Whats the worst that can happen?  Thanks.

The squeaky wheel getting grease strategy might not work, but I think the teeth of it being inconsistent with basic road regulations could work in gaining some traction if we're serious about fighting this.  Would the southern climber's coalition perhaps be an avenue for advocating?

Kevin Heckelerwrote:

The squeaky wheel getting grease strategy might not work, but I think the teeth of it being inconsistent with basic road regulations could work in gaining some traction if we're serious about fighting this.  Would the southern climber's coalition perhaps be an avenue for advocating?

The SNCC is in touch with the Access Fund.  Hopefully that helps.

For what it’s worth, my buddies who I met up to climb with today at Willow Springs, drove on 159 to get there. They said they specifically looked while driving past the pullouts for first creek and oak creek, and they didn’t see the signs up anymore so they may already be down.

I will write to the Access Fund to voice my concerns.  

The mission of the BLM is "to sustain the health, diversity, and productivity of the public lands for the use and enjoyment of present and future generations."

If the local BLM people who are making these decisions think that the area under their jurisdiction is somehow getting damaged by overcrowding, and that is affecting the use of present (and future) generations, then they must have had a tipping point where they once said "this is OK", and now they are saying "this is too much".  How was this determined?  Is there some number of cars per day or some headcount per day that is too much?  Are they measuring air pollution from exhaust, people parking illegally, levels of trash?  What is the metric for too much and reasonable, sustainable use?  Who decided that?  What is the data that says that the solution is having a reservation system?

I've been climbing in Red Rock for 40 years for 4 or more weeks a year, and until the shutdowns due to Covid-19, I have only ever experienced "crowding" in parking lots and on trails on weekends and Holiday weeks, like college/school kids spring break weeks.  That is why this sudden need to have a quota system for 365 days a year seems unreasonable.  Yes, with Covid and the loop shutdown, when I was there in May, I saw a significant increase in things like dayhiker traffic (with boomboxes and leaving trash) in First Creek, even during the week, when schools were closed and more people were not working.  

I agree there should have been public warning that this change to a permit system was being considered.  There should have been time for public comments. 

Over the past two decades, the BLM has sold off tens of thousands of acres of federal land in the Las Vegas Valley to private developers who subsequently built homes. The proceeds from these sales have amounted to around $3 BILLION. The Southern Nevada Public Land Management Act (SNPLMA) says that most of these proceeds need to be spent on outdoor recreation projects.

BLM has actively aided and abetted the intense population growth in the Las Vegas Valley and they have failed to use these funds to adequately prepare Red Rock for the anticipated surge. 

There have been a few improvement projects undertaken at Red Rock. The visitor center was enlarged. The First Pullout, Sandstone Quarry and Pine Creek parking areas have been expanded. Two bridges have been constructed; these bridges are rarely used.

Many more suggestions have been made to improve Red Rock and they do not ever seem to go anywhere. The Second Pullout needs expanding. The Loop Road is ridiculous. It is about 1.8 lanes wide with no lane markings, making passing very risky. Some people say that the road should be two-way, or a separate exit road should be constructed from Sandstone Quarry but no progress is ever made.

There is seemingly no enforcement on the trails, so graffiti has been allowed to proliferate. This may be the big reason why we all have to suffer from the new rules. 

The toll booths are the big bottleneck. People that pay with credit card or buy a season pass, take up minutes of time. The worst overcrowding occurs on the free entrance days which often happen on holidays. Cars line up for a mile down the highway, so perhaps the highway should be expanded.

This is a slap in the face, the way that the reservation program has been instituted without outreach or public comment period. Red Rock needs serious improvement and it should have gotten far more money from the land sell-off because Red Rock sees the bulk of the problems due to population increase.