An argument against stick clips

Gumby Kingwrote:

Thats a big assumption! Its like assuming a climber will leave two pieces of gear when bailing on a trad route.

In either case, Darwinism will probably take care of those either who don’t do so or who don’t have the requisite judgement to know when it’s not necessary.

Gumby King you're a little softie.  You actually USE stick clips?    

I smash my ankles with pieces of choss I ripped off your proj until they just stop breaking from being hit by rock.  I've survived groundfalls from the top of El Cap after I victory whipped to finish my morning solo circuit.  

TLDR; Stop being a whimp

Reese Stanleywrote:

Gumby King you're a little softie.  You actually USE stick clips?    

I smash my ankles with pieces of choss I ripped off your proj 

Soft Gumbies don't "proj"  

Bouldering Sucks btw. ;-)

Gumby Kingwrote:

Soft Gumbies don't "proj"  

Bouldering Sucks btw. ;-)

Bouldering sucks?  Fuck, that's the last 7 years of my life WASTED.  Call me L Kap because I want you to stay far away from me you big meanie.  Thanks for being "that guy".

I've heard down-climbing and reversing moves is just as important as going up.

Gumby Kingwrote:

TLDR: Stick clips are a product of bad bolting.

Not true. Sometimes a route is hard and sustained off the ground and there is really no other way than a high, stick clipped first bolt. 

And if the route is established ground up, then you take what you get

Russ Keanewrote:

I've heard down-climbing and reversing moves is just as important as going up.

If you're climbing slab trad, absolutely. If you're climbing overhanging sport, absolutely not.

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

my new stiffy

Really  hard not to say  something lewd, crude,  and socially   unacceptable  to that, especially   because it is pink

Stick clips are for those with strong egos who don't give a fuck about style points 

Gumby boy kingwrote:

Stick clips are for those with strong egos who don't give a fuck about style points 

Do you boulder without a pad?  

It's really red if that helps. soft sunrise light coming in through the van window makes it look pink... 

snowdenroadwrote:

Do you boulder without a pad?  

Well that's a given 

Use it. 

Your ankles 

Will be thankfuls 

Gloweringwrote:

...I also laugh when people say SPORT climbing is supposed to have a certain level of risk.

Bingo. 

Nick Goldsmithwrote:

my new stiffy

How  many  inches? It may be longer  than mine,  had one for 20  years, but I am only 4'10".  what I can reach with my stiffy you can probably reach from the same stance

Gumby Kingwrote:

First, I use my stick clip.  Stick clips save ankles.  Second, I started climbing at the New River Gorge.  Many of the "easier climbs" had the first bolt 10-20' off the deck.  Blowing the second clip could also put you on the ground.  

Well there's a huge difference between the first bolt being 10' off the ground and the first bolt being 20' off the ground.  So the distinction is important.  Quick physics/math quiz:  If the first bolt is 10' off the ground and the second bolt is 6' above the first and you fall while AT second bolt (NOT blowing the clip) vs. the first bolt being 20' off the ground with the second bolt being 6' above that and you fall at second bolt (NOT blowing the clip), with rope stretch and belayer give, in which scenario are you more likely to crater?  This isn't a trick question.  Stick clipping a higher first bolt and climbing is inherently safer than climbing up to a lower first bolt without having it clipped first.  Falling at or near the second bolt on a higher first bolt you are less likely to deck than falling at or near the second bolt.  This is painfully simple math and physics.  Like below the "101" level.  This verdict has been out for oh... idk, about 30-35 years ago.  You know, when those climbs were first bolted.  Why gumbies refuse to do (or are incapable of?) simple math and figure this toddler-level equation out for themselves is beyond me.  It's like you believe the hype about being a coward if you use a stick on the first bolt, but you don't want to say that because it makes you look like a tool, so you thought up some other half-assed explanation for your anti-stick stance.  Do you rap off beefy steel ring sport anchors too?  I hear that's inherently safer and that people that lower off sport climbs are "damaging fixed gear".  May want to start a thread about that moral quandary next.

don'tchuffonmewrote:

It's like you believe the hype about being a coward if you use a stick on the first bolt, but you don't want to say that because it makes you look like a tool, so you thought up some other half-assed explanation for your anti-stick stance. 

1st the disclosure - this story is real, and comes for prime gumby crag, The Orange Oswald wall.

A climber was getting on Orange Oswald, a really nice 10a at NRG/Summersville
I tell her - I find the opening sequence a bit tricky, and the holds are getting polished, here is stick clip just to make it safer ( some bending of truth to encourage her to use the stick)
She politely declines
She then falls, and twists her ankle
She is reminded that the stick clip is still available
She climbs again, falls again... 

2nd story, surprisingly also quite real

Climber is eyeing a somewhat tricky start at RRG/Miller Fork, the place where climbers go to break hand and foot holds.
I tell him - rock is crumbly, this start is a bit tricky, here is the stick.
He politely declines - his friend, who is not even there, does not approve off stick clips.
Fortunately, he does not fall
(Same route, friend took a whipper at the last bolt - foot holds crumbled)

Crag Catwrote:

Use it. 

Your ankles 

Will be thankfuls 

First bolts really aren’t typically as high as people say. Those in the photos are barely over 12ft. 12’ to 15’ being a normal height for sport areas and not the 20’ to 25’ usually thrown out there. Just an observation and makes me chuckle a bit when I hear people complain about high first bolts. If they were that high, stick clips would be useless. 

stick clipping on a sport climb takes away from often the most exiting part of a climb

Jackson Reichwrote:

stick clipping on a sport climb takes away from often the most exiting part of a climb

If you consider the most exciting part of sport climbing the first 12' of the climb, might I suggest you take up bouldering...