Great deals on bolts, hangers, and other hardware

Ken Noycewrote:

I have never understood this mentality, the only case where it makes sense is on multipitch routes where a factor 2 fall is a possibility.  There is no reason that a anchor needs to be made from stronger bolts than the protection bolts, the anchor will never hold a lead fall, it only holds body weight, and you always have a backup.  The protection bolts however need to regularly hold lead falls, and usually, until at least the 4th bolt (sometimes even higher) are the only thing keeping the climber off the deck because were the bolt to break in a lead fall (the most probable failure scenario) there will be too much rope out for the lower bolts to do any good.

You make a great point.

My assumption was that Nick is bolting sparsely protected multipitch, and the 1/2" anchor bolt is expected to be used as the solitary piece of pro straight off of the anchor. If he's hand-drilling, then he's a saint.

In most* single pitch settings, it makes a lot more sense to use your beefiest bolts down low.

*EDITED: Nick and Matt make valid points below. 

Logan Petersonwrote:

You make a great point.

My assumption was that Nick is bolting sparsely protected multipitch, and the 1/2" anchor bolt is expected to be used as the solitary piece of pro straight off of the anchor. If he's hand-drilling, then he's a saint.

Certainly in single pitch settings, it makes a lot more sense to use your beefiest bolts down low.

This is very possible, and I wasn't trying to call out Nick specifically, but I've met quite a few people who put big beefy anchors in on single pitch sport routes, and then skimp on the protection bolts which makes no sense at all...

I disagree. People will TR off anchors on most any sport route you establish. Decking due to total anchor failure is way worse than any protection bolt other than 1 or 2 failing and still worse than those situations due to greater fall length. I would say the most likely cause of a modern SS bolt failing would be a block of rock including the bolt calving off, due to unseen and unheard weaknesses in the rock, which could in theory also take out two adjacent bolts, thus longer is better at anchors IMHO. I don’t think many people place 1/2” bolts by hand. 

I don’t think I am the only person thinking about things in this paradigm. I mean since the beginning we have used multiple pieces of gear at anchors but single pieces for pro. Occasionally doubling up prior to a crux.

If bolts were free I would use all 1/2” but since I pay for hardware out of pocket I usually only use 1x 1/2” per route and my preference is to put it at the anchor as the top bolt of a vertical inline French style anchor.

If I were to place a 2ed 1/2” it would be just below the crux, 3ed would be 1st bolt (plus a high 1st bolt).

Best practices continue to evolve and I am happy to hear other people’s thoughts. At least most everyone is placing stainless. 

NickMartelwrote:

I disagree. People will TR off anchors on most any sport route you establish. Decking due to total anchor failure is way worse than any protection bolt other than 1 or 2 failing and still worse than those situations due to greater fall length. I would say the most likely cause of a modern SS bolt failing would be a block of rock including the bolt calving off, due to unseen and unheard weaknesses in the rock, which could in theory also take out two adjacent bolts, thus longer is better at anchors IMHO. I don’t think many people place 1/2” bolts by hand. 

I don’t think I am the only person thinking about things in this paradigm. I mean since the beginning we have used multiple pieces of gear at anchors but single pieces for pro. Occasionally doubling up prior to a crux.

If bolts were free I would use all 1/2” but since I pay for hardware out of pocket I usually only use 1x 1/2” per route and my preference is to put it at the anchor as the top bolt of a vertical inline French style anchor.

If I were to place a 2ed 1/2” it would be just below the crux, 3ed would be 1st bolt (plus a high 1st bolt).

Best practices continue to evolve and I am happy to hear other people’s thoughts. At least most everyone is placing stainless. 

But do bigger bolts actually make an anchor safer? If the rock could shear off I don’t know how a 1/2’’ or 1/8’’ makes a difference

Longer arguably do. It doesn’t hurt. 

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

But do bigger bolts actually make an anchor safer? If the rock could shear off I don’t know how a 1/2’’ or 1/8’’ makes a difference

Thicker likely not. Length is more important and then hitting two different pieces of rock so if you’re really concerned you’ll space them out more than the usual 8”. People think the Frankenjura setup of a “single” bolt is crazy but in reality it’s more of an extremely spaced French setup where the last lead bolt acts as the back up. The first lower is a proof test of the anchor bolt backed up by the last lead bolt, likely in a completely different piece of stone. 

As noted, the main concern with quality placements is rock failure, not material failure. 3/8 vs 1/2” is moot for the most part. Length gives you more buffer in questionable rock. 

These days I’m working a fair amount in very pocketed limestone and spacing my French setups more and more. 24” is not out of the question  for me to try and hit two different pieces of stone. 

Thanks Nick and Matt. I probably haven't always thought deeply enough about subsurface cracks at anchors, assuming that, if the rock rings and there are no visible cracks, rock is bomber (probably a safer assumption on volcanics than gneiss/limestone). 

I have used JB weld for steelies on chain draws. not too hard to keep it smooth or sand it before painting everything to camo it.

If anyone missed the steal on KB-TZ 304 SS 3/8" x 3", I'll pass some on at my cost. Stocked up expecting another local would want some.

1 box for $48.50 plus $7.15 shipping.

Will also trade for 3/8" SS hangers--2 bolts per hanger. Fat chance, I know.

PM if interested.

Rob WardenSpaceLizardwrote:

I have used JB weld for steelies on chain draws. not too hard to keep it smooth or sand it before painting everything to camo it.

So you glue a steel caribener to a chain? Just trying to visualize?

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

So you glue a steel caribener to a chain? Just trying to visualize?

Sounds about right. Not elegant but strong and inexpensive 

They sell these crazy things called captive pin steel carabiners.... no hokey looking JB weld project required. 

Colby Wanglerwrote:

They sell these crazy things called captive pin steel carabiners.... no hokey looking JB weld project required. 

Where do you buy them at a reasonable rate? I haven’t seen any for less than $8 a pop in months.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Where do you buy them at a reasonable rate? I haven’t seen any for less than $8 a pop in months.

I buy them from FIXE or Climbtech. I will admit, they are not cheap, but sadly developing safe, lasting routes isn’t cheap. Frankly it’s expensive.

Pouring one out for all of us 1% fitting the bill to develop for the rest. 

Colby Wanglerwrote:

I buy them from FIXE or Climbtech. I will admit, they are not cheap, but sadly developing safe, lasting routes isn’t cheap. Frankly it’s expensive.

Pouring one out for all of us 1% fitting the bill to develop for the rest. 

EpicTV has had the Beal biners for about 4.5$. they sell out fast and then take a while to come back in stock, so usually I buy a handful at a time. 

Alexander Stathiswrote:

EpicTV has had the Beal biners for about 4.5$. they sell out fast and then take a while to come back in stock, so usually I buy a handful at a time. 

Yeah this is what I have been watching, unfortunately I need about 40 so I’m trying to be creative in the meantime.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Yeah this is what I have been watching, unfortunately I need about 40 so I’m trying to be creative in the meantime.

Someone posted this a while ago, couldn’t find the original. Feel like they said it had a stiff gate, but otherwise was good 

https://usstainless.com/hardware/spring-hooks/stainless-steel-316-spring-hook-carabiner-3-8-10mm-marine-grade-safety-clip/ 

Peter Thomaswrote:

Someone posted this a while ago, couldn’t find the original. Feel like they said it had a stiff gate, but otherwise was good 

https://usstainless.com/hardware/spring-hooks/stainless-steel-316-spring-hook-carabiner-3-8-10mm-marine-grade-safety-clip/ 

That looks great anyone else have experience with these? Going to have to use a quick link to attach it to something so it makes the whole perma cost $13 which seems pretty good.

Y'all, $5.40 per before shipping:
https://www.mountaingear.com/sterling-steel-wire-gate-carabiner/MG253851P.html

Last i checked they had over 100 of these in stock. I've bought many, love them for lower offs, not so much for fixed draws though. Don't need any more for a while. Have at it.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

That looks great anyone else have experience with these? Going to have to use a quick link to attach it to something so it makes the whole perma cost $13 which seems pretty good.

Those are actually pretty good. The gate is a little stiff but not bad for lower-offs. I’ve place dozens of them and have yet to hear complaints. Kinda can’t beat the price when they are in stock.