Top Rope Solo set up

Max Rwrote: Grigri absolutely sucks for TR solo. Try it. You’ll have to feed it by hand every move, unless you mod it. With the vergo, the rope travels through the device at a straighter angle. Add a litte bit of rope weight, and the device will feed like butter.

Yeah I don’t love my micro trax and my camp lift (this part failed the other day) for hard climbs since you can’t rework a move or lower easily. The gri sucks for anything more than two feet. And gri gri + microtrax there is an extra loop between the two devices if you don’t pull gri gri slack so that sucks.

Princess Puppy Lovrwrote:

Yeah I don’t love my micro trax and my camp lift (this part failed the other day) for hard climbs since you can’t rework a move or lower easily. The gri sucks for anything more than two feet. And gri gri + microtrax there is an extra loop between the two devices if you don’t pull gri gri slack so that sucks.

One answer is the Taz Lov2 with a backup knot tied right before the section you want to work or a Roll'nLock underneath it

SICgrips are you still tr soloing with the revo? How would you compare that to the Vergo setup?

Phil Sakievichwrote: SICgrips are you still tr soloing with the revo? How would you compare that to the Vergo setup?

No... sold it. With my mod it fed pretty good but in the end it had two major disadvantages that the Lov2 doesn't have. First is the distance to lock up on weighting it. Second, is I never really got use to it in rapping. The hacks I suggested helped but never quite felt normal to me. 

Also construction quality always bothered me a bit even though I never experienced any problems related to construction and materials.

Others suggest that it has a repetitive lock/unlock issue at the top of a route when the weight of the free end becomes significant. Can't comment on that as I never experienced it.

I've never used the Vergo so can't comment on it, though I have used the Cinch. Didn't like the design of it (my subjective design intuitions) and the short handle and pressure needed to rap sucked.

Hello!
[I am used to post in already existing threads so that there are no new threads on already existing topics. Hope this is true in this forum too - if not plz say so and I will happily start a new thread]

Did my first tope rope soloing yesterday with only a microtrax (no backup. shame on me. 10meters, easy route).
I want to get a second device for TRS on two strands (single rope - middle attached to anchor - knot - two strands)

thinking about
Kong - Duck
CT - Roll'n'Lock
Camp - Lift

I also thought about the vergo or a goblin, but I think I'd go for cheaper gear right now and would add more different gear if I continue to TRS a lot and have to redo some metres over and over.
(right now I want to use TRS for "climbing around a little bit" when there is no climbing partner around)

I would be glad if you shared your oppinions and experients with me. Which should I go for? :)

Thank you :)
[don't mind spelling or grammar mistakes - no native speaker]

Roll'nlock:. Single strand R'nL on top, micro underneath. Allows easiest transition to rapelling  At the top you put grigri on the other line, take off micro, unlock R'nL and rap.

Hi. Thanks for your advise.

I do have a Grigri but I cannot use it with my rope (old Grigri and thin rope don't go together). Could still use the reverso with a prusik though.
Roll'nlock looks like a device that's used a lot for TRS. I still try to figure out the (dis-)advantages of the duck compared with the roll'nlock.

Thank you :)

 

SICgripswrote:

No... sold it. With my mod it fed pretty good but in the end it had two major disadvantages that the Lov2 doesn't have. First is the distance to lock up on weighting it. Second, is I never really got use to it in rapping. The hacks I suggested helped but never quite felt normal to me. 

Also construction quality always bothered me a bit even though I never experienced any problems related to construction and materials.

Others suggest that it has a repetitive lock/unlock issue at the top of a route when the weight of the free end becomes significant. Can't comment on that as I never experienced it.

I've never used the Vergo so can't comment on it, though I have used the Cinch. Didn't like the design of it (my subjective design intuitions) and the short handle and pressure needed to rap sucked.

Thanks! I hadn’t heard of the Lov2 until you mentioned it. Pricey but looks nice.

I got ham-ray'd over the past 2 days, wiped out more from getting out of the system on a steep project using a sling under the ropeman as an ascender long enough to get GriGri weighted on the second line. Exhausting. For harder projects I am now using the GriGri from the start on the second line to skip at least part of this nonsense. I may be over-cautious right now with my confidence shaken a bit, but TRS is definitely not the time to experiment with minimalism... I cloved off a second bolt last night close to the edge and directly above the project and weighted it as the primary anchor. Went back up to review and didn't like the way the hanger sounded with a hammer tap. Swung the ratchet 2 inches with a torque wrench set at the rating. and it broke off immediately. It must have been over-torqued at the installation and I can't imagine this is from repeated falls on a short rope but now I am thinking for short projects above a certain level of difficulty, I may anchor the ground an run the line through the anchor down to the rig just to get some extra rope in the system.  Thor never placed a bolt (every bolt you clip was placed by a mortal). Be safe.

Jim Pavoldiwrote: I got ham-ray'd over the past 2 days, wiped out more from getting out of the system on a steep project using a sling under the ropeman as an ascender long enough to get GriGri weighted on the second line. Exhausting. For harder projects I am now using the GriGri from the start on the second line to skip at least part of this nonsense. I may be over-cautious right now with my confidence shaken a bit, but TRS is definitely not the time to experiment with minimalism... I cloved off a second bolt last night close to the edge and directly above the project and weighted it as the primary anchor. Went back up to review and didn't like the way the hanger sounded with a hammer tap. Swung the ratchet 2 inches with a torque wrench set at the rating. and it broke off immediately. It must have been over-torqued at the installation and I can't imagine this is from repeated falls on a short rope but now I am thinking for short projects above a certain level of difficulty, I may anchor the ground an run the line through the anchor down to the rig just to get some extra rope in the system.  Thor never placed a bolt (every bolt you clip was placed by a mortal). Be safe.

I understood maybe 20% of what you just said.

1- Wtf is ‘ham-ray’d’
2. Were you climbing with only a single ropeman on 1 line?

3. Are you saying that you used a re-belay on a bolt below an edge, and the bolt broke?
4. I don’t understand how using a ground anchor will be beneficial unless you’re leading.

Max Rwrote:

I understood maybe 20% of what you just said.

1- Wtf is ‘ham-ray’d’
2. Were you climbing with only a single ropeman on 1 line?

3. Are you saying that you used a re-belay on a bolt below an edge, and the bolt broke?
4. I don’t understand how using a ground anchor will be beneficial unless you’re leading.

haha sorry. "Hammered" as in completely exhausted. I found myself getting more and more blown out, then would have to rest out in space to recover and then jerk around while dangling to get out of the system which got progressively less pleasing as attempts continued. I solo both TR and lead, with the first often being just a component of the second method as a goal so I often have at least a plan for a ground anchor should it all come together. 

These are short projects, so I anchor to the middle an use two lines, Camp Lift on the main, with a Ropeman2 as the backup.

This might be too much detail, but With 4 possible projects close to each other, I set a bolt high, 15 or 20 feet or so above the center, then 2 additional bolts closer to the tops (almost like a directional) of those furthest from center.

The plan was a static line quadrupled almost like an 18 foot quad off the high anchor creating a second piece to equalize with runners over the edge from the directional.

The bolt broke when I went up to inspect it, tapped it with a hammer and didn't like it, so 're-tightened' it and it broke like a plastic spoon.

I am convinced it was simply over-torqued somehow, and had nothing to do with repeated falls, but the jingle jangle of broken bolt pieces in my shirt pocket engendered an adrenal response like turning the crank on a vintage egg beater buried deep in the bowel...

My idea to minimize shock on the top anchor, was simply to anchor the ground, then run the line through the top anchor (not fixed to it), and use that end as the main line (thus doubling the amount of rope in the system).

Hey Max, on another thread from the end of last year you had a micro-trax backup to the Vergo. I'm curious, did you have a change in thinking that made you drop the micro-trax for a backup knot? Thanks.

Andy Wiesnerwrote:

Hey Max, on another thread from the end of last year you had a micro-trax backup to the Vergo. I'm curious, did you have a change in thinking that made you drop the micro-trax for a backup knot? Thanks.

Hey! I found that when I was repeating a move over and over, i would get tired of having to lock open the cam of the micro trax everytime just so i could lower, and in most cases the teeth would still catch on the rope. I now just tie a single overhand knot a high enough to keep me off the ground. The vergo has reliably caught me every single time so far, and the micro trax was just extra faff. 

Max Rwrote:

Hey! I found that when I was repeating a move over and over, i would get tired of having to lock open the cam of the micro trax everytime just so i could lower, and in most cases the teeth would still catch on the rope. I now just tie a single overhand knot a high enough to keep me off the ground. The vergo has reliably caught me every single time so far, and the micro trax was just extra faff. 

Makes sense. Always on a dynamic rope in this mode? Noticed in the picture you are on the Beal Tiger (Unicore 10), which I use for lead solo and aid. That also seems to be a good choice for TR solo w/ the Vergo.

Andy Wiesnerwrote:

Makes sense. Always on a dynamic rope in this mode? Noticed in the picture you are on the Beal Tiger (Unicore 10), which I use for lead solo and aid. That also seems to be a good choice for TR solo w/ the Vergo.

Yepp! My current favorite rope. Still looks brand new after a trip up El Cap. I think i want only unicore ropes from now on. 

+1 for the value of rope protectors.

Skimming the thread and just want to toss in a quick cautionary tale from 2 days ago.

Was sussing a potential new line on TR solo a couple days ago, and sheathed my buddy’s (dynamic) 10.1 rope with very little effort. I had never had an issue with it in the previous visits, but had never spent as much time hangdogging the rope, so didn’t think to throw a protector on it. Well, after only 60 minutes or so of jugging/hanging/working moves/cleaning holds, the jagged edge of the (presumably) rhyolite rock had shorn through the mantle and exposed the kern. At the very least, a bummer for the cost of buying a new rope. Probably extremely likely that I’d have realized the issue before it resulted in a fatality, even with more TRS’ing, but altogether it was exemplary of Type III fun.

Max Rwrote:

Yepp! My current favorite rope. Still looks brand new after a trip up El Cap. I think i want only unicore ropes from now on. 

Interesting. Did some reading and sold on unicore. I just endured 2 days of magical rejection and a lot of (justified) insecurity about sheath damage from edge and feature friction (not at all about the toothed ascenders or whatever brought us together here). 

I saw those pics, what are you using to keep the device so high? I have been using a rubber band and chest rig made of tubular webbing (made butter soft from years of Mediterranean body oil and salt) but spent the weekend in a manufactured chest harness. It sucked. I can see amd feel wear marks all over and it didn't help keep the Lift that high even with a compact delta link (if anythjng it appeared to allow it to torque sideways and 'creak' which was spooky enough to retire it for the rest of the day).

For rope protection on a straight down pull over a mellow edge, I'll sometimes prussik my pack to the lines as a mat, but this round only had a Camelback made of parachute material that's perfect for solo lead. 

Jim Pavoldiwrote:

Interesting. Did some reading and sold on unicore. I just endured 2 days of magical rejection and a lot of (justified) insecurity about sheath damage from edge and feature friction (not at all about the toothed ascenders or whatever brought us together here). 

I saw those pics, what are you using to keep the device so high? I have been using a rubber band and chest rig made of tubular webbing (made butter soft from years of Mediterranean body oil and salt) but spent the weekend in a manufactured chest harness. It sucked. I can see amd feel wear marks all over and it didn't help keep the Lift that high even with a compact delta link (if anythjng it appeared to allow it to torque sideways and 'creak' which was spooky enough to retire it for the rest of the day).

For rope protection on a straight down pull over a mellow edge, I'll sometimes prussik my pack to the lines as a mat, but this round only had a Camelback made of parachute material that's perfect for solo lead. 

For the micro trax/ RnL combo, i use thin bungee/shock cord looped over my head. The chance of it choking you, and somehow not breaking is irrelevant to me. People keep complaing about on the FB TR solo page. For the vergo, because it has a little bit more drag, i like to use a double length sling in an X behind my back. 

Sure. First I tie an overhand 8 to one bolt, then a butterfly to the 2nd bolt, and lengthen it to ‘equilize’ it. I do this beacuse the butterfly is by far the easiest knot to untie after repeated falls/jugging. The strand disappearing up left out of view is just a few feet of extra tail sitting on a ledge.

I used to always tie a double eared figure 8, which is fine, but the butterfly/8 combo is the best, especially for fixing a rope on a big wall. I learned this from one of Mark Hudons old videos. 

There's a use for the top end of the rope. You can secure that end to an anchor above the lip (tree, gear), rap down to the bolted TR anchor, and then re-anchor to the bolts the way Max R showed. This way you can rap down from the top anchor to the TR anchor, and then transfer the rappel to the rope below the TR anchor, and then ride down to the base of the climb. When you do it this way, the anchor that's protecting you is always above you (which is nice), and the anchor that's loaded when you fall on TR isn't running over the lip.