Lowering off off a single non-locking carabiner

You know people lower off a single biner all the time on sport routes.
It just happens to be backed up by all the other draws closer to the ground.
Has anyone actually seen the top biner unclip in this scenario?
Not saying it couldn't, and not offering any advice to the OP who should make up his/her own mind.

Personally, I'm usually more worried about the single bolt if I'm planning on cleaning all those draws.

chris bwrote:

has anybody actually fallen onto a prusik?? i have always been so skeptical of this technique.

High enough fall forces will melt the prussic. Lowering like this shouldn't be a concern but there's a method (the Barnett System) that was used to rope solo climb using only prussics but this is no longer used when death occurred from the prussics melting in a lead fall

Edit: Thanks Steve, I couldn't remember the name of the technique for the life of me and didn't want to dig into my older technique books. 

I have seen a kinky rope unclip a non-locking carabiner while being lowered. Luckily we had two (opposite and opposed), otherwise, I would have decked from ~80 ft. The anchor was way off to the side on top of a rounded slab which definitely contributed to this scenario. The rope would have to be insanely kinky to do this at a free hanging anchor. 

Mark E Dixonwrote: You know people lower off a single biner all the time on sport routes.
It just happens to be backed up by all the other draws closer to the ground.

Uh, not really. At least not if you're bailing and cleaning as you lower. If you're lowering off a bolt at 70 feet and it blows when you're half-way down (or the rope escapes the biner) the draws at 30 feet aren't going to do a single bit of good to arrest your fall because you've just put something like 100 feet of slack into the system. 

SinRopa wrote: I caught an alpine parrot in New Zealand chewing through tat while my partner was rapping off our route.  Those things have beaks like EMT shears.  I didn’t think anyone would believe me, but I guess it’s not unheard of there. Crazy.

Kea will chew up just about anything. I've been bit by one and can attest to the sharpness of their beaks. They are beautiful, though.

Where were you climbing?

Some situations you can temporarily  back up a single biner or rap ring with a loop of web or cord. (Sometimes call a poot sling when used without the biner).
Avoid clogging up bolt hangers that the next folks may be wanting to clip quickly.

https://www.alpinesavvy.com/blog/back-up-that-single-point-rappel-anchor

Andrew Ricewrote:

Uh, not really. At least not if you're bailing and cleaning as you lower. If you're lowering off a bolt at 70 feet and it blows when you're half-way down (or the rope escapes the biner) the draws at 30 feet aren't going to do a single bit of good to arrest your fall because you've just put something like 100 feet of slack into the system. 

Good point. 

I don’t worry about it too much.

If the bolts are manky I don’t do the climb.

If they aren’t manky and I need to lower off one of them, I just leave one of my old grooved biners turned upside down.

YMMV

This guy who survived a highly unlikely shark attack has an interesting view on living your life by probabilities.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2020/07/surviving-a-shark-attack.html

He didn't let having his leg bitten off stop him from going back and paddleboarding in Hawaii again. But I'm pretty sure that if he knew he could prevent a shark attack with a small piece of tape, he'd use the tape. 

To all those advocating using tape on the non-locker's gate - would you, REALLY, tape a permadraw's gate shut when bailing off your sport route project? Would you tape that gate shut even on your own draws if lowering off mid route while working it?

I think there are two types of people posting on this thread.
Those who spend a lot of time falling off sport routes and those who don't.
The solution for each group may reasonably differ.

amariuswrote: To all those advocating using tape on the non-locker's gate - would you, REALLY, tape a permadraw's gate shut when bailing off your sport route project? Would you tape that gate shut even on your own draws if lowering off mid route while working it?

I don't think we're discussing taping a carabiner shut when you are working a project and lowering from a line of decently spaced clipped bolts. Presumably having your top carabiner open is not much different from falling at the clip; the next draw should catch you. I'm also not super concerned about permadraws which are usually located on steep, overhanging routes where it's highly unlikely you will be unweighting the rope while you are on the way down.

For my part, I'm talking about situations where you are lowering from one single bail carabiner on a bolt or or single point bolted anchor with no other points of protection below you, e.g. when you plan to remove all the other draws on your way down. I keep a locking oval on my harness to use as a bail carabiner. If I didn't have my locking oval and had to use a non-locker, yeah, I'd use tape. 

Anyway, tape is a lot better than a cheap plated quick link that will rust shut and be a total pain in the ass to remove.

Isn't lowering off of a single non-locking biner the way it's done in comps now?

I’ve seen the rope unclip itself from a non-locker while I lowered, I’d probably be dead if it weren’t for the second biner it was also clipped to. I’ve heard of and seen photos of bolts that looked completely normal pull out under body weight because they were rusted through underneath.

This has been said but bears repeating. The point of redundancy is it protects you from crazy, rare, or unimaginable events because they would have to happen twice at the same time. That’s why it’s a good idea anytime the function is life-critical. 

Mark E Dixonwrote: Anyway, tape is a lot better than a cheap plated quick link that will rust shut and be a total pain in the ass to remove.

... and be judicious about whether tape is needed.  Rapping from a free hanging biner? Not. :)

Hey, after all, Donald Trump became president!  

Sadly, this happened and we can learn from it:

https://rockandice.com/climbing-accidents/bolt-breaks-climber-falls-to-death/

Just a friendly reminder that this is not at all about single bolts but single non locking biners.
assume your single non locking biner is attached to >2 bomber bolts, connected by bomber chains.
What could possibly go wrong when lowering? 

Khoiwrote:

Isn't lowering off of a single non-locking biner the way it's done in comps now?

Source? 

Mike Shortswrote:

Source? 

Watching 

https://youtu.be/kvL67Rir2oI?t=8745