x4 question - does anybody climb with no size between 0.2 and 0.3 ?

I've always been fortunate to have an in-between size, and I suspect most people who use x4 also have one (e.g. red c3).  In theory, with perfectly flat crack walls, the practical 0.2 + 0.3 ranges seem to maybe just barely overlap.   But with real (irregular) cracks, I fear trying to make do w/o a size in between would result in either prolonged fiddling or getting the 0.3 stuck.  Would anyone who made it work share their experience ?  Did you occasionally find yourself having to place the 0.2 less cammed than you'd like or spend a long time getting the 0.3 out ?

For doubles in those sizes, I carry one set of X4s plus one set of the offset X4s.  I love the offsets and I never noticed any crack that was just the wrong size.  But I also lead scared and I'm not afraid to overcam a 0.3 (and my usual partner is pretty good at fishing them out).

Yup, I run the C3 option as well.

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

C3 RED and Black Totem are almost identical in size. #1 UL Master fits in there too.

A yellow c3 is a .3 BD size.  Your lineup is correct though. Black totem/blue met/red C3 are all nearly identical.

And yes I appreciate having an in-between size here. 

yeah, the .2 / .3 gap is terrible.  bring a blue metolius, red c3, or green alien.

Matthew Jaggers wrote:

C3 red* and Black Totem are almost identical in size. #1 UL Master and C3 Yellow fits in there too.

Took this a while back for my own sizing sake.Tried my best to eye up every size to get them in order....

It’s really bothering me that your red C3 is on a yellow biner.

Anyways...yes!  That is definitely a problem.  With cams this small you don’t want to mess around with the margins and it’s definitely worth filling in the gaps.  Red C3 gets placed quite often, as does the black.  The purple also sits well between 0.2 and 0.1 and is rated a little higher.

Ted Pinsonwrote:

It’s really bothering me that your red C3 is on a yellow biner.

Anyways...yes!  That is definitely a problem.  With cams this small you don’t want to mess around with the margins and it’s definitely worth filling in the gaps.  Red C3 gets placed quite often, as does the black.  The purple also sits well between 0.2 and 0.1 and is rated a little higher.

I'm gonna go ahead and assume that he has them racked on biner's according to size. Seeing as the yellow C3 is racked on a blue biner and all other cams of his in that size are blue.

I regularly climb with only a 0.2-0.3 X4, or a 0.3 X4/C4 and a green C3, and don't have any issues.  However, I think it's super dependent on the particular route, type of rock, the grade, etc.

For example, I doubt anyone has ever failed to send 5.10 or a classic moderate multipitch because they didn't have a black totem.  In that context, a 0.2 and 0.3 is probably fine.  On the other hand, on a difficult route with sustained climbing in the tips size, it might be super critical to have something(s) in that range.  I think it really depends, and without any context of routes, grades, rock type, area, etc. I feel like this is kinda vague.

This can help you sequence out sizes as well as determine in-between sizes.

https://cam-parison.com/

If you have to kind of overcam the piece, seems like the C4's are less likely to get stuck.   I love X4's but there's no shame in having a .3 in the stiffer version.  Such a tried and true piece.

Kyle Tarrywrote: I regularly climb with only a 0.2-0.3 X4, or a 0.3 X4/C4 and a green C3, and don't have any issues.  However, I think it's super dependent on the particular route, type of rock, the grade, etc.

For example, I doubt anyone has ever failed to send 5.10 or a classic moderate multipitch because they didn't have a black totem.  In that context, a 0.2 and 0.3 is probably fine.  On the other hand, on a difficult route with sustained climbing in the tips size, it might be super critical to have something(s) in that range.  I think it really depends, and without any context of routes, grades, rock type, area, etc. I feel like this is kinda vague.

I agree, but everything in climbing is relative.  If 5.10 is your limit then having adequate pro to protect where you need to absolutely will make the difference between backing off and sending.

I've never even noticed a gap. I often climb with either a set of c3s OR the 0.1 and 0.2 x4s. Most of my trad climbing is on utah/idaho granite. I will say that I prefer the c3s to the x4s.

Ted Pinsonwrote:

I agree, but everything in climbing is relative.  If 5.10 is your limit then having adequate pro to protect where you need to absolutely will make the difference between backing off and sending.

Eh, I think that describes me pretty well (I'm a 5.10/10+ trad leader) and I have never backed off a route because I didn't have a special cam to fill a gap of a couple millimeters in the normal BD lineup.  Maybe that climb exists somewhere in the world, but in general you just don't really see a lot of sustained climbing in splitter tip cracks that won't fit a 0.2 or 0.3 X4 on a 5.10.  Maybe there is some really thin finicky face climb somewhere that has one key pocket that won't fit either of these cams, but that's far from the norm.

Kyle Tarrywrote:

Eh, I think that describes me pretty well (I'm a 5.10/10+ trad leader) and I have never backed off a route because I didn't have a special cam to fill a gap of a couple millimeters in the normal BD lineup.  Maybe that climb exists somewhere in the world, but in general you just don't really see a lot of sustained climbing in splitter tip cracks that won't fit a 0.2 or 0.3 X4 on a 5.10.  Maybe there is some really thin finicky face climb somewhere that has one key pocket that won't fit either of these cams, but that's far from the norm.

Yeah that’s pretty normal where I climb, but we almost never get splitters.  So your one pro option for the crux might be a tiny cam or nut placed next to a rocking block.