The Girth Hitch Master Point

Dylan Careywrote: Thanks for the post will. Lots of helpful info here. My question/concern is on the shelf. Is there a shelf? I like to belay off the shelf to get more “throw“ ie to make the belay easier and more comfortable. Could you clip the two legs above for a shelf?

Hey Dylan,

I personally haven't been able to find anything regarding using the shelf in the girth hitch system and whether or not it's safe. Until I do, I'll probably be accepting the fact that it's one of the downsides to the hitch. Since it's a very common anchor method in Germany and Italy, I'd assume there is some literature on it in those languages but alas, I solely speak English. I think to increase the throw and usability of the anchor workspace somewhat of a fix would be to just extend your clove or PAS so that your belay sits further away from you. Not a perfect fix, but it'd clear up a bit of room.

I’ve found the girth hitch anchors masterpoint ends up being higher so you don’t need a shelf. I typically use three pieces and a double length sling, and if I can reach up and put the pieces up high it puts the masterpoint at about nose level which is perfect (about the same place a shelf would be). If I used a cordelette and BFK in the same situation the Masterpoint would be lower because the knot and loops of cord below it are longer than the biner used in the girth hitch. 

Will Mwrote:

Hey Dylan,

I personally haven't been able to find anything regarding using the shelf in the girth hitch system and whether or not it's safe. Until I do, I'll probably be accepting the fact that it's one of the downsides to the hitch. Since it's a very common anchor method in Germany and Italy, I'd assume there is some literature on it in those languages but alas, I solely speak English. I think to increase the throw and usability of the anchor workspace somewhat of a fix would be to just extend your clove or PAS so that your belay sits further away from you. Not a perfect fix, but it'd clear up a bit of room.

perhaps im missing something, but by just looking at the anchor you can tell there is no traditional "shelf" as there is on a master point style anchor.

There is NO SHELF with a Girth Hitch masterpoint or a Clove Hitch masterpoint. It would likely cause all sort of kinking and load issues between the two carabiners. You'd end up re-creating something that resembles the buckles on your harness except with the masterpoint biner and the shelf biner.

If you want to get you autoblock belay higher (you do, it's a lot more efficient) then you can a) place your pieces higher b) use a shorter sling c) set yourself lower (farther) relative to the belay by extending your clove.  

Just to be clear: would you clip a biner into the master biner to tie in, then clip another biner to the master biner if you were guide mode belaying?

Andrew Hesswrote: Just to be clear: would you clip a biner into the master biner to tie in, then clip another biner to the master biner if you were guide mode belaying?

That's how I do it. Small locker with a clove hitch on the rope for my tether. Another small locker for either guide mode belaying or a redirect. Partner gets there and puts on a 3rd locker for their tether. Could easily put a 4th locker on for a party of three. If you use a big pear shape locker like I do.

Another point about having the masterpoint up high, I like having my tether connection up high too. Because if I give myself some extra length on my tether so I can move around easy, if it's coming from up high it's not hanging down by my knees. The extra rope seems to stay out of the way better and seems like there'd be less fall factor if I fell off the ledge onto my tether.

If you want a true master point loop and one that is easy to untie, try using an alpine butterfly 

Chris Stockingwrote:

I'd been thinking of getting a large rap ring to use for this exact purpose. Does anyone have any experience using this method? Any pros/cons that might not be obvious to using it instead of a large carabiner? 

I use the SMC rigging ring.  It easily holds three large carabiners plus the girth hitch material and I leave it behind as a rap ring if I need to.  Off the top of my head it's good for 30kn.

...or,

the bear paws are coming out...must be rigging time!!

https://smcgear.com/smc-rigging-ring-red.html

0.9oz/26g  32kn

Jason4Toowrote: smcgear.com/smc-rigging-rin…

0.9oz/26g  32kn

If you're into ear stretching, you could use these and always have one...er...two on hand for emergencies.

rgoldwrote: ...or,

1.3 oz, 36 kg MBS.Just a thought...

--or

Gloweringwrote: 
A couple points IMO:

• I give the strands between the pieces a twist (like you would do for a sliding X) then if a leg fails it can't slip through girth hitch. It's extremely unlikely it would slip enough to matter anyway, but for piece of mind it's nice to know it won't go through.

Not seeing how this would help if a cut leg slips?

Dave Olsenwrote:

Not seeing how this would help if a cut leg slips?

It wouldn't. It would only help if a sling came off a biner (e.g. biner broke, or user error). Again, I don't think it would slip enough (even with a cut sling) for the sling to go thru the girth hitch, I just like the idea that it's setup in a way that an intact sling couldn't slip through.

I would agree with other posters that static testing is not a realistic scenario, dynamic is.

Typically, knots due poorly in static, slow pulls, but knots can improve dynamic performance.

Also Dyneema sucks dynamically, so don't fall on that directly -  have a soothing more dynamic in the system, nylon or the climbing rope.  

Girth works well with 5/8 nylon tube and 8mm cord when used with two placements. With three placements it gets crowded.

If you belay with a grigri the 8 is a backup belay device and allows double rope raps. Great idea.

Gloweringwrote: If you belay with a grigri the 8 is a backup belay device and allows double rope raps. Great idea.

I used to have one of these!  For lead belays IMO they suck...not enough friction. But you are correct for rappels they were super smooth.  Wonder how you could set up a third hand for this device???  

Buck Riowrote:

I used to have one of these!  For lead belays IMO they suck...not enough friction. But you are correct for rappels they were super smooth.  Wonder how you could set up a third hand for this device???  

in general, setting a 3rd hand above the device works better for 8s. this allows you to pull up extra rope and lock off the device if needed.