BLM banning roped activities in Moab

Dylan Pike wrote:

I don't care one way or the other which party is in control of the government. They both try to restrict access. The Republicans want to auction off mineral leases, which limits access, and the Democrats want close access for archaeological/environmental/liability reasons. Like I said, I don't want public lands to go away, but I'd love to see Federal agencies with no authority to do much of anything.

So what is your solution? Land can be held by the feds, states, localities, nonprofits or private interests. They all have their bugbears. 

the schmuck wrote:

So what is your solution? Land can be held by the feds, states, localities, nonprofits or private interests. They all have their bugbears. 

My solution is the Feds own the land, but can't do anything with it. Or they can do very limited things with it, like prosecute illegal resource extraction or damage to sensitive habitats.

Frank Steinwrote:

In case someone gets this idea, be careful. It is a felony to make a bid on a lease without an intent to extract/graze. People have gone to prison over this. 

Wait seriously? Not trying to argue. I just find it absurd. If you own the land why can't you do nothing with it? 

Also, are we talking "grazing" like goats grazing on grass and shit? We can just buy up the land and get Fritz and his gotez to take care of the grazing part.

Sean Cwrote:

Wait seriously? Not trying to argue. I just find it absurd. If you own the land why can't you do nothing with it? 

Also, are we talking "grazing" like goats grazing on grass and shit? We can just buy up the land and get Fritz and his gotez to take care of the grazing part.

IIRC you aren't buying the land, you are buying a lease for it.

Sean C wrote:”Wait seriously? Not trying to argue. I just find it absurd. If you own the land why can't you do nothing with it?
Also, are we talking "grazing" like goats grazing on grass and shit? We can just buy up the land and get Fritz and his gotez to take care of the grazing part.”

If it’s a grazing lease, then yes. However, you may be required to graze a minimum number of heads.

A few years ago, there was a case where a guy bought a mineral lease on federal land in Utah. He had no intent to extract, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to something like 8 years (most of which was suspended).

One does not buy the land, just the right to do what the lease allows/requires. 

Frank Steinwrote: Sean C wrote:”Wait seriously? Not trying to argue. I just find it absurd. If you own the land why can't you do nothing with it?
Also, are we talking "grazing" like goats grazing on grass and shit? We can just buy up the land and get Fritz and his gotez to take care of the grazing part.”

If it’s a grazing lease, then yes. However, you may be required to graze a minimum number of heads.

A few years ago, there was a case where a guy bought a mineral lease on federal land in Utah. He had no intent to extract, was charged, convicted, and sentenced to something like 8 years (most of which was suspended).

One does not buy the land, just the right to do what the lease allows/requires. 

Got it, thanks. Still frustrating but I suppose that makes "sense"

Artem V wrote: Soooooo... soloing is still okay? 

Perhaps a good approach is to claim that "forcing" people to free solo is highly unethical and not in the interest of public safety!

Nobody is going to keep me from going back to Hell Roaring and climbing the Witch a fourth time if I want to.
I've been climbing in Valley of Fire for 40 years despite the ban.
One time in July '78 I was at the top of pitch 2 on Touchstone late in the day when ranger Mike Exell drove up and got on his car's PA and said, "Come down here. I want to talk to you."
Much to my girlfriend, Donna's, chagrin I yelled down, "You come up here."
He wasn't happy but nothing came of it.

More on this.....

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/a-guy-named-craig-may-soon-have-control-over-a-large-swath-of-utah

Gandhi is a hero. Rosa Parks is a hero. But when I advocate civil disobedience I get banned from MP.

Land managers resent climbers' ability to go places in their "territory" where they are unable to go.Saying they are concerned with nesting birds is a smokescreen to hide their raison d'être.

There was a 3 acre forest of junipers near my ranch. The BLM went in and chainsawed them all down. I asked them why they did it and they said to create more wildlife habitat. Goddam idiots, for the three previous years I had watched a huge golden eagle nest in those trees.

Oh yeah the BLM really cares about birds.
I studied environmental conservation at CU, and some of these idiots don't have a clue.

I say again, if I want to climb the Witch a fourth time I damn well will.

Ron Owrote:

Perhaps a good approach is to claim that "forcing" people to free solo is highly unethical and not in the interest of public safety!

Nobody is going to keep me from going back to Hell Roaring and climbing the Witch a fourth time if I want to.
I've been climbing in Valley of Fire for 40 years despite the ban.
One time in July '78 I was at the top of pitch 2 on Touchstone late in the day when ranger Mike Exell drove up and got on his car's PA and said, "Come down here. I want to talk to you."
Much to my girlfriend, Donna's, chagrin I yelled down, "You come up here."
He wasn't happy but nothing came of it.

Hold up! There's good enough rock to climb in VoF??? This is exciting! All I have to do is dodge rangers!

Ron Owrote:
I say again, if I want to climb the Witch a fourth time I damn well will.

I’ll see ya out there! 

Used 2climbwrote:

Hold up! There's good enough rock to climb in VoF??? This is exciting! All I have to do is dodge rangers!

I have put up a bunch of good routes in VoF, but you are right, much of it is choss. You have to look for varnish.

Fortunately much of the varnished rock is on the west side of the reef, not visible from the road on the east side.

These climbing restrictions need to stop.  There are millions of square miles where birds and other wildlife roam free, but the same is not true of the availability of developed climbing areas.  Human activities need to take priority.  Please reach out to me if there is something I can do to stem this trend of closures.

Joshua Tree Runnerwrote: These climbing restrictions need to stop.  There are millions of square miles where birds and other wildlife roam free, but the same is not true of the availability of developed climbing areas.  Human activities need to take priority.  Please reach out to me if there is something I can do to stem this trend of closures.

Agenda 21, learn about it. It the reason for the season 

Bald Headed John wrote: Lesson for everyone who thinks government ownership of land is the ideal. Tell me how productive you'll be trying to gain access. Extra points for saying "bUt iT's OuR LanD"

WTF? Censorship of Bald Head John? I’ll never add beta to this site again 

Fuck Mtn Project censorship 

Honestly I find the "censorship" makes me pay even more attention to those users who are getting "censored."  I see that note about them being hidden and my brain goes "ooh, that person must say interesting things." 

Three pages in and no one has mentioned Sketchy Andy and his crews possible involvement with this? Hell roaring canyon is the location of the punch bowl or whatever they call it where they regularly rig a dozen highlines and rope swings and have a huge largely unorganized slack line festival. These semi commerical ventures have had a huge toll on the surrounding area and I think if they simply disallowed the impactful and crowded activities hosted and promoted by Andy we'd have a solution

Robert Rowsamwrote: Three pages in and no one has mentioned Sketchy Andy and his crews possible involvement with this? Hell roaring canyon is the location of the punch bowl or whatever they call it where they regularly rig a dozen highlines and rope swings and have a huge largely unorganized slack line festival. These semi commerical ventures have had a huge toll on the surrounding area and I think if they simply disallowed the impactful and crowded activities hosted and promoted by Andy we'd have a solution

Good insight.

On the map on the first page, it looks like that area is being considered for allowing high lining.