HELP! Renaming Texas 'subtle racism' Route

Derek Fieldwrote: Aunt Jemima isn't good maple syrup.

Signed,
Canadian

It says you live in Sedona.....

Let’s re-name all peaks that have been colonized by pretentious white men. Down with Whitney, Everest, Sill, and all the rest

Darwin, Mendel, Wilson, too many to list, 

Denali

Not Not MP Adminwrote:

It says you live in Sedona.....

0/10

Marcelo Fwrote:

I’m not black but I could see why a black person might be offended by it. There is a lot of history around the Aunt Jemima character that I wasn’t aware of until recently ( google.com/amp/s/amp.kentuc…).

It just seems like a lot of people on here often look for the one POC who agrees with them on a thread like this and use their opinions to bolster their own dismissal of these topics as not important. That’s not really cool. It’s dismissive of the vast majorities of POC who would disagree with you and who have a much higher stake in this conversation.

I guess what I’m saying is maybe ask more than one single black person whether something is offensive to them before you jump to a conclusion and dismiss the topic at hand?

You are correct - one person does not represent all black people. Likewise, neither do you (or I) know what the "vast majorities" think about this. I think it's OK to have a different opinion than the majority, as long as it's expressed in a civil manner.

Personally, I still think the whole furor over a rock climbing route named Aunt Jamima is nonsense.  Nonsense that I am participating in!

Aren't there bigger fish to fry? (is that offensive to fish?)

Marcelo Fwrote:

It just seems like a lot of people on here often look for the one POC who agrees with them 

Ding ding ding. Ignorant people like Frank totally take this approach and use it to claim they aren't racist. "SEE! He agrees with me, and I agree with him! How can I be racist if I agree with a black person?"

It's sad that we have adults in this society, with full power and privilege refusing to acknowledge that some people MIGHT have it worse. Fear. 

T Legowrote:

Ding ding ding. Ignorant people like Frank totally take this approach and use it to claim they aren't racist. "SEE! He agrees with me, and I agree with him! How can I be racist if I agree with a black person?"

It's sad that we have adults in this society, with full power and privilege refusing to acknowledge that some people MIGHT have it worse. Fear. 

I'm ignorant! Racist! I have "full power and privilege"!  Aren't there a few other epithets you left out?

FrankPSwrote:

I'm ignorant! Racist! I have "full power and privilege"!  Aren't there a few other epithets you left out?

Boring?

Frank, your willingness to defensively dig your heels in speaks volumes. If you took a tenth of the time you take posting childish retorts on a climbing forum and spent it instead listening to black folks' experience with racism in America, you might experience some actual growth. I know it's more difficult than making petulant comments, but you can do it.

Or at this point it may be best if you just subscribe to the rule; "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

Big Macswrote: Frank, your willingness to defensively dig your heels in speaks volumes. If you took a tenth of the time you take posting childish retorts on a climbing forum and spent it instead listening to black folks' experience with racism in America, you might experience some actual growth. I know it's more difficult than making petulant comments, but you can do it.

Or at this point it may be best if you just subscribe to the rule; "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

I don't generally dismiss individual accounts of racism.

But it raises my hackles when white people (or any individual) presume to speak for other races. Or when they make broad statements like "you're all part of the problem."  Or, "you must do this."

As far as I can tell, there has only been one black person commenting on this thread. Where are those individual black experiences that I haven't listened to?

Funny you refer to my disagreement as defensive and petulant, yet ignore other childish name-calling.

I try to keep my comments civil and I apologize if I haven't. I don't see the same civility from some others, but that can be expected on social media.

I'm going to hit my post limit, so I'm out.

 A five minute video by Bill Maher that sums up the delicate balance of this.

Edit - Changed to youtube link from twitter link.

Frank, thanks for your thoughtful response. I know we're all trying to do better, and that's realized in myriad different ways. You're right that these conversations typically lack nuance on social media and can often come off as being more antaganostic than we meant. Didn't mean to come off as hostile towards you. 

Be well.     

Dave K wrote:

Help me out here, are we speaking for black people or are we letting them speak?

It's notable that you responded twice to Frank but completely dismissed what Chris had to say. It's almost as if you are more concerned with bashing the white guy than listening to and engaging with POC.

Bashing the white guy? Are you okay? I responded to him pretty respectfully about something I feel strongly about that he has almost no stake on. I’m responding to him being dismissive and disrespectful of a topic that impacts a lot of people. I think I was perfectly civil. I responded twice because he replied to me and I was trying to have a conversation. He deleted his reply though.

It doesn’t take a lot of effort to gauge the majority opinion of POC on topics like this. Attend a BLM protest, talk to your black friends, start reading The Root or some recent polls coming out, hell, just do something that’s actually a sincere effort to listen.

And yes, it’s time for brown and white people to start speaking up when they see casual racism, so I’m not about to stop. Again, this is something you would know if you were actually trying to listen to black people. They’ve made it clear it’s time for US to do the work of removing racism from our culture. Yet you spend a ton of time fighting against that effort even though you have nothing to lose compared to POC.

Marcelo F, for what it’s worth I think your posts to this thread have been thoughtful and constructive. 

Mark Straubwrote: Can somebody please help me understand what's racist about the route name "Aunt Jamima"?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.kentucky.com/opinion/op-ed/article243794117.html

Have all you activists done anything yet this week to actually help with the issues in society or just argued over an obscure crappy rock's name?

Used 2climbwrote: Have all you activists done anything yet this week to actually help with the issues in society or just argued over an obscure crappy rock's name?

Yep, attended a BLM protest to demand the mayor actually listen to people during council meetings instead of silencing them and running away, donated money to BLM, ACLU, a couple of bail funds for protesters. Over the last few months I've been reading a lot and trying to engage people who disagree with me in a constructive, respectful manner. I've been supporting a couple of workforce development programs to get black people more involved in the tech industry.

None of this has prevented me from spending a few minutes on MP trying to convince others we should remove racially offensive language from route names.

Apparently there’s actually a relatively positive history/story surrounding Aunt Jemima, who was a real person who made award winning pancakes. It’s a neat story and worth researching. 

Astrid Rey wrote:

Here we go with the gaslighting. Once again they put the burden on POC to prove it because they can't make the effort to use google.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=flip&page=3

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Filipino_sentiment --- The term was allegedly an acronym for "fucking little island people"

Why do you think the footwear is called that? People need to read and understand that racism is everywhere.

Your sole addition to MP is to troll and try to stir up shit when there is plenty?