Anyone can climb V10/5.14-

Bill Schickwrote:

It's a lot easier on the ego to tell yourself this and believe it than to actually give it everything you have and come up short.

Especially if your socks are on the wrong feet

abandon moderation wrote:

I wonder how much a climbing coach costs? Like most climbers I naturally don't want to spend any money, but if I think about how much time I've spent trying to improve at climbing over the last decade or so... it seems like a logical 

I got my gym membership comped. i signed up with lattice. Its 90 a month.  I havnt started yet due to a naggling injury from a work accident. Going basically from climbing 3-4 days a week to not being able to at all. 

to be fairn If i was still able to so 13b/c relatively quickly and boulder relatively well for my size. I sont think i would bother with a couch. 

I was and am pretty detail oriented. I kept records in excel and was excited to see progression. I enjoyed the accessory work and have a strong body/ very lean as a result.

But getting hurt they way i did really set me back

At the worst it was 10% of my previous high
At best its about 40% now. 

That would be fine if i still loved it. However it has ruined climbing for me to suck at it. 

I am hoping that lattice may help me get back faster and smarter and then i can carry on.  I may perhaps add their assessment into my other checks for body comp, free testosterone and mobility.

Bill Schickwrote:

It's a lot easier on the ego to tell yourself this and believe it than to actually give it everything you have and come up short.

Sure! I’m very aware of it. And I’m ok with my choices.

I also believe that I can run a marathon. I’m making no statement about the time I can do it in, but I firmly believe that I can... I have walked the distance while hiking, with a pack, in one push, so I’m sure I can beat that time, at least. :) but I hate running, so I never will. Also very ok with that choice. 

Lena chitawrote:

Lol, I’m sure you can set a calendar reminder for yourself.

Obviously just believing you can do something doesn’t make it come true. But believing you CANNOT do it is a sure way to not ever be able to do it. 

This was mostly in reference that no matter how much experience, knowledge or ability someone on mountain project will call you a Gumby. Side story that I debated on posting to here but I got called an incapable climber in a Facebook group for asking people to not top rope on rap rings. They then said anchors were not expensive and that I clearly have never bought any after I posted a picture of a box of rap rings on my floor.

Well, I'm glad that Mike got something out of what I wrote. Too bad you did not read between the lines.
I said what I said because people were saying they were getting hurt training or practicing. If you are getting hurt training you are doing something VERY wrong. You train to build yourself up not destroy yourself. Learning to train properly is hard & the most important thing you have in your toolbox to 1 get strong enough to do what you want & 2 to stay healthy.
Starting with your socks is a metaphor for doing things from the ground up, start at the beginning work your way up till you get the results you want or need.
This being modern American why wood you lister to the words of one of the greats coaches in the history of the world. Clearly we all know more about winning than Johnny Wooden.

Mark Frumkinwrote: Well, I'm glad that Mike got something out of what I wrote. Too bad you did not read between the lines.
I said what I said because people were saying they were getting hurt training or practicing. If you are getting hurt training you are doing something VERY wrong. You train to build yourself up not destroy yourself. Learning to train properly is hard & the most important thing you have in your toolbox to 1 get strong enough to do what you want & 2 to stay healthy.
Starting with your socks is a metaphor for doing things from the ground up, start at the beginning work your way up till you get the results you want or need.
This being modern American why wood you lister to the words of one of the greats coaches in the history of the world. Clearly we all know more about winning than Johnny Wooden.

I completely agree with ya Mark. I'm just goofin off as this entire thread is goofy as fuck.

I'd guess you'd be very hard-pressed to find a 5.14 climber with much of a follow/top-rope vs. lead grade gap in safe terrain. I'd argue anyone with a gap of 2 letter grades or more between their hardest top rope and hardest lead almost certainly has mental issues, not strength, as their greatest weakness holding them back. This actually includes top-roping ability as the sort of anxiety that holds people back from leading where the fall may be big but safe tends to also affect top-roping climbing in less obvious but still-important ways.

I'd also argue that this is probably very good news for most climbers as mental strength on lead is very unlikely to the affected all that much by genetic predisposition, especially since we're presumable talking about sport climbing here and not trying to be some crazy free-soloist.

Sarah Zubrin wrote: hmmm I think that this is dependent on a variety of factors as stated above. There are some climbs that women will never be able to do as well or easily. Look at the disparity in styles of climbing already. I feel pretty confident that if I climbed everyday, ate a boatload of protein, and got lots of good rest that I could climb a 5.14. Then we go into- am I leading, following, or straight up top roping this climb. I can top rope a heck of a lot more challenging climbs than I can lead (fear, experience, etc.) Also I could probably flail on a 5.14 and top out is that climbing? What is your definition of success or climbing? I think though if you are sound body/mind and spend 6 months training every day and push yourself harder than you ever have you could..... is it lazy to not? I don’t think so.

For the purpose of this conversation (which started based on the statement in a podcast) “climbing a grade” means redpointing A climb of the grade. Not toproping. Not doing individual moves. But also, nobody says that you have to do a SPECIFIC 5.14. Of course different routes will play to different people’s strengths.

ALSO, 6 months of training hard... LOLOL! Maybe if you are already climbing a 13d.  

6 months of training hard....     
i don't think most people understand how much more difficult every single step is from the last one.  it's a lot of steps from 5.10 to 5.14.

It's hard to understand the difference between the top 5% and 1%.
I'm not the smartest guy I don't know how many times I lay on the track in pain smashed helmet torn gear all because he was in the top 1% & I was in the top 5%. It took a while to get ahold of my in weakness & let the faster riders go. That also is when I started riding really well. It took me more than 5 years to really realize how I needed to train & focus on all the little thing all the time & a couple of more before I was at a place where I didn't care who was at the track they probably will kick my ass but I'll make them work for every bit of it. In those days we raced 2 45 min motos most fast guys fade at about 30 mins. 

If its an "Average Climber" then doesn't it mean they climb like the average person?

All I can say is the people who thought they couldn't get from 5.10 to 5.14 with 6 months of training didn't get to 5.14 in 6 months

Mark E Dixonwrote: All I can say is the people who thought they couldn't get from 5.10 to 5.14 with 6 months of training didn't get to 5.14 in 6 months

100% not even if they boosted their T  to some other PED and followed a 100% custom plan 

(Edit) the skill aspect is overlooked.

Edit 2 in response to finger strength.  It is still possible to gain significant strength, but it will be harder.

Bill Ramsey is my anecdotal test case

Mark E Dixonwrote: All I can say is the people who thought they couldn't get from 5.10 to 5.14 with 6 months of training didn't get to 5.14 in 6 months

And the ones who thought they could and really really tried hard didn't get there either

Mark E Dixonwrote: All I can say is the people who thought they couldn't get from 5.10 to 5.14 with 6 months of training didn't get to 5.14 in 6 months

You just wait, 50 years from now, if you don't make it to 5.14 in 6 months, you would fail your junior team tryouts. :)

Lena, that be true but how many wrecked bodies will be left behind?

if you're going to make an omelette...

Mark Frumkinwrote: Lena, that be true but how many wrecked bodies will be left behind?

As many as with other competitive sports? Competition climbing is certainly heading that way. 

I tried damn hard for along time.  I peaked out around V8-V9 and 5.13b-5.13c, blowing a finger every time I got up into that range.  I was a weekend warrior, working full time, started at the age of 20, and fully committed to the sport doing specific training, weight loss, good diet, cross training, and all the things.  I definitely had a finger issue that kept me from breaking through the 5.14a grade.  It was a different finger or location on the finger each time, spread over years.  I just couldn't physically do it.  It was damn fun trying, but once I hit 39 and started working another 5.13b and blew a finger again, I just started surfing.  I grew up very athletic and motivated, didn't pick up climbing until college, and tried damn hard at it.  I believe that Horst estimated the average Joe could hit 5.13.  I'd go with his assessment.  That was my experience, and after teaching and mentoring climbing and watching many other people who were wildly driven hit a mid-5.13 ceiling like me that seems to be a pretty big ceiling for the average climber.

Lena chitawrote:

As many as with other competitive sports? Competition climbing is certainly heading that way. 

heading that way? It has been there for a bit and is likely worse than many sports.