Unspoken rules and etiquette for new climbers.

Reading through another thread in General Climbing there was a conversation about this kinda thing and, being a new climber, I think it's beneficial for myself and other new climbers to understand before heading out.
I'm sure there are a lot so the main things to do and not do I think would be sufficient. Basically, what are the things you wish new climbers knew before they just stormed onto the scene. 

I don't think anyone else will mention this, so I will:

Leave your dogs, babies and music at home.

1. If you’re top roping and someone wants to lead through, let them.
2. Pull your own weight- carry the rope or the rack.
3. Don’t shout beta at people. 
4. Be ready to climb, if you’re still organizing your gear and another team is ready to go it’s their route. There’s no reserving routes. 

Don't shit where people will find it.

This is a great start:

https://frictionlabs.com/blog/6-rules-of-etiquette-for-outdoor-climbing   (One critique...  there are times when brushing off chalk isn't practical like multipitch routes.  If you boulder, you should definitely try brushing the chalk off provided it can be done safely)

I'm sure Access Fund and American Alpine Club have other lists as well.  Be careful of the mountainproject.com trolls...

No yard sales! keep stuff you aren't using in your pack, not scattered around the base of the cliff. It's unsightly and leads to posts from folks looking for one lost shoe, belay device, grabbed the wrong phone on the way out, etc.

Climb Onwrote:

1. If you’re top roping and someone wants to lead through, let them.
2. Pull your own weight- carry the rope or the rack.
3. Don’t shout beta at people. 
4. Be ready to climb, if you’re still organizing your gear and another team is ready to go it’s their route. There’s no reserving routes. 

I feel like these are kinda pushy and only would be expected by a person who is thinking that they deserve to climb immediately but I disagree with every one of those “rules”.
1: If you are actively topropping and someone tries to lead through, they are a dick. I don’t know why they would do that but I certainly wouldn’t be okay with them trying to lead through unless I was on a big wall and super slow and they asked permission to climb through.
2: Always ask to carry the rack or rope but you don’t have to if your partner doesn’t mind. I personally enjoy the weight for training. 

3: Dont shout beta at people unless they like beta being shouted at them. Everyone’s different. Some people want the help. 

4: If you are at the bottom of a route and you are still getting organized then speed it up but no, you don’t HAVE to let someone ahead of you. You were there first, just hurry up and get on the climb as soon as possible. If you let them climb ahead of you they could be a very slow team and then you’d be screwed. Just because someone shows up racked up doesn’t mean they’re going to be able to speed through a route. 

FrankPSwrote: I don't think anyone else will mention this, so I will:

Leave your dogs, babies and music at home.

Wait wait- people bring dogs to crags?  At least they're leashed though...

Joking aside, I also consider myself a new climber. For some context, I got back into the gym around May 2019, and started climbing outside in August 2019; so less than a year of outdoor climbing.  I’ve only TR’d, was getting into the high 5.10 range, and have been trying to get out the last month with friends who climb sport and trad, but just haven’t been able to make it happen between their Covid fear and plans not lining up.  So I don't have much to offer in the way of multi-pitch etiquette as far as letting other parties pass, crowding an anchor, etc.  But I think common courtesy (as well as the knowledge of how to apply it) goes a long way in these situations, absent as it may be from lots of folks these days.

I think basic Leave No Trace ethics are a good starting point though. I’ve been a pretty avid hiker for a little under a decade so I’m very familiar with LNT. That covers a lot of ground as it pertains to trash, dropping a deuce at the crag, cig butts on the ground, etc.  Basic respect for the environment and all that.

From what I gather, most of climbing etiquette is based on consideration for others, which, lucky for me, comes easy although it doesn't come easy for everyone.  Some examples off the top of my head that I've not only read complaints about here on MP, but also agree with:

RE music at crags: I personally like to go into nature for the nature.  I prefer the sounds of the birds, insects, air, wind, trees, water/rivers/creeks, and the sound of me interacting with the rock/ground; it's meditative for me.  I view the music discussion from a starting point of "what does the environment look/sound like before both Mr/Ms bluetooth speaker and I arrive". Spoiler alert, there's no music aside from the orchestra of mother nature before the climbers roll up.  Next, I look at how my behavior impacts others around me, and vice versa relative to what the conditions were from the start (nature/silence).  As long as my behaviors aren't negatively impacting another's enjoyment of the outdoors, then I'm usually in good shape.  In this example, the person playing music loudly from their speaker is changing the natural state of the environment that we're in, and so I believe the my right to enjoy nature in its natural state (and not altering that natural state) is more "right" than their right to enjoy the disturbed natural state.  They also have the option to put headphones in, so there's that.  The opposing argument to that of course is that everyone has the right to enjoy nature as they see fit- IMO selfishly ignoring or being ignorantly oblivious to the impact of their actions on others.  The music thing and ethics in general are very nuanced and subjective, and I understand where others are coming from, but I see it how I see it.

Dogs?  Same concepts as above; Bringing a dog to a crag is fine with me so long as the impact of you bringing your dog rests solely on you.  Pick up their shit, keep them on a leash, and keep an eye on them.  What if I was extremely allergic to your dog who playfully sprints up to me while I'm belaying and causes some kind of adverse reaction?  At that point, Mr/Ms crag-dog is now potentially putting others at risk with their pooch.  Uncool in my opinion.

I tend to side with the notion that "My right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins".  Apply that to climbing and the outdoors, and you probably won't piss off too many people.

If you want to avoid a shut out show up early, climbing has always been first come first serve, unless letting parties pass on multi pitch.  There are plenty of routes to go around.  Be kind be courteous and send it.

These aren't rules or etiquette...
 I always smile and say hello if I arrive at a crag and there are already people there.  You will end up meeting so many nice people.

Also, as a beginner, don't let the presence of other people at the crag, many of whom will be floating up routes,  get in your head and cause you to do something inadvisable, or intimidate you into not saying something to your belayer that you might say if others were not around.  No one is there to judge you.  Experienced people will usually be more than willing to help out if you get in over your head and need some assistance.  I never want to see someone get hurt.

Jeff Perduewrote: what are the things you wish new climbers knew before they just stormed onto the scene. 

be self sufficient...

New climbers should be forced to hang with more experienced climbers for at least a year to figure out how NOT to be a fucking n00b at the crag.  I have seen more shit in the last 5 years than the previous 25+ years that makes me cry.  Terrible belays, I'm talking about people taking both hands off the rope with an ATC. WTF???  People complaining about a five foot run out on bolts WTF???   People showing up at a trad area with no gear asking about bolts??? Hammocks across trails??? 

I just think that an extraordinary number of dumbshits have taken up climbing....and are inflicting themselves upon us. That and the strength of the pot has gotten so high. 

I'd like to add that asking someone to "go toproping" is a phrase that should never, ever be uttered or written.  This is particularly crazy-making when in a sentence like "would like to go toproping, or sport."  Your options are to "lead climb" or "top rope" both of which can be done either on sport routes or trad routes. I am not sure if you use these phrases, but the alternatives seem to be creeping in to the vernacular in a way I am definitely not okay with.

We have to stop the grammatical madness that is taking over our sport. :P

Stay home on days I plan to climb.

Jon Hartmannwrote:

I feel like these are kinda pushy and only would be expected by a person who is thinking that they deserve to climb immediately but I disagree with every one of those “rules”.
1: If you are actively topropping and someone tries to lead through, they are a dick. I don’t know why they would do that but I certainly wouldn’t be okay with them trying to lead through unless I was on a big wall and super slow and they asked permission to climb through.
2: Always ask to carry the rack or rope but you don’t have to if your partner doesn’t mind. I personally enjoy the weight for training. 

3: Dont shout beta at people unless they like beta being shouted at them. Everyone’s different. Some people want the help. 

4: If you are at the bottom of a route and you are still getting organized then speed it up but no, you don’t HAVE to let someone ahead of you. You were there first, just hurry up and get on the climb as soon as possible. If you let them climb ahead of you they could be a very slow team and then you’d be screwed. Just because someone shows up racked up doesn’t mean they’re going to be able to speed through a route. 

1: Agreed unless it's the first pitch of a multi-pitch route.

2: You should still ask. The partner can still decline.

3: An easy compromise here is to ask if the person wants some beta.

4. If I am still racking up and a party ready to go shows up, I usually offer to let them go. To me, that's only fair, and finding out they're slower is a chance I take. On alpine or long multi-pitch, I usually start really early anyway, so a small delay isn't likely to be a big deal unless the other party turns out to put on a shit show.

If someone is belaying, don't initiate conversation. They have one job to do and that is to keep their climber safe. Even if they speak to you, keep the conversation brief. They may not realize they should be giving their full attention to their partner, and you engaging with them only serves to reinforce that being distracted is OK for them. The moment you are not speaking with them may be the moment they get to save their partner's hide.

If you are belaying, have this phrase ready when someone tries to speak to you. "I'll be glad to talk when I'm done belaying."

Climbing isn't a party. If you get invited to go climbing with more than 2 (maybe 3) other people, tell them you're not into annoying other people who enjoy what should be the serenity of the outdoors. Unless you're bouldering, in which case there appears to be no etiquette. 

Bring a beer and always make sure your partner gets the first swig.

Allen Sandersonwrote: Bring a beer and always make sure your partner gets the first swig.

Bring at least 2 beers? Yuck.

Lots of good advice in this thread! If I'm climbing with a newer climber or a gym climber these sort of things are all I'll try to teach, if anything. Assuming they know safety stuff, theres still etiquette/teaching them to not do weird things. Not really etiquette, but teaching newer climbers how to clean a route with what they've got instead of keeping slings or a pas on their harness to go sport climbing. Of course its not wrong, and if that's how you feel most comfortable then that's how.you should do it, but there's really no need to buy extra gear to clean sport routes. Oh, and putting lockers on the rope end of quick draws for the anchors, pulling the rope and offering to let another party clean it. Dont do that. Having brought nothing with him, my partner ended up trying to open very tightly screwed down lockers from a slimper so he could clip the anchors another group offered to let us use.