Learning trad without a mentor?

"start leading way way below your limit."

^^ This is all there is to it!

OP, read this, then read it again and another time after that. Best post in the thread.

slim wrote:hmmm, top rope soloing to learn trad... i don't really think this is the best way to go, for several reasons. if you don't know how to lead gear protected routes, then you will likely not be technically competent to TR solo a route. this isn't a black and white sort of thing, it is possible, but very unlikely. second - this is a good way to learn about the strength of your placements, but you aren't going to learn a lot of the equally important things. some of these include where to position your belay so that the belayer is protected from rockfall, or so the belayer doesn't contribute to bottom up zippering, or that the belayer isn't your crash pad if you come off early in the pitch. you also won't really learn how to use multi-directional pieces to protect non-multi-directional pieces from zippering. this is mega important, and i see soooo many new (and experienced, unfortunately) climbers who don't have any realization of this. other problems that you won't learn about include proper slinging to optimize rope drag versus longer falls, how to route the rope to keep it from getting stuck in roof cracks or behind loose blocks and flakes. another one that really gives beginners problems is how to build a belay when you don't have 2 or 3 good placements in a reasonably close proximity. there is a lot more to trad climbing than just placing a piece that you can rest on. i was pretty much self taught, but had a few folks that i could go out with once in a while. luckily these guys were very harsh about my screw ups. a lot of the things i learned i had to learn the hard way. i think you would be a lot better off finding a good partner.

Russ Keane wrote:"start leading way way below your limit." ^^ This is all there is to it!

Exactly - Experience is what you need and learning those skills first hand well below your limit is the only way to get that - while a mentor will be able to point out your screw ups and how not to do them again, they aren't out there on the sharp end with you making decisions for you.

Your mentor can only point out your mistakes after they are made when you have already faced the consequences of them.

I bought this book.......And both Rockcraft books, JB

amazon.com/Ropes-Knots-Slin…

;)

I'm self taught. If you're actively learning by watching instructional videos and reading books, I think you'll be fine. The idea of needing a single mentor seems odd to me. Just go climb, be up front about your skill level, and you'll probably meet a variety of people who will teach you varying skills.

Curious about one thing, no, two.

First, unless you're free-soloing you've got to climb WITH someone. So who are you climbing with? Might as well just find a couple trad-competent partners you like. Or invest in some time with a guide. But you still ultimately need to get over the social awkwardness thing at some point.

Second, do you know how to lead climb on sport? Or are you learning literally from the ground up?

I went trad climbing with a few different people before I lead my first route. Definitely drop down a couple of grades from your sport level. Nothing like fumbling with 3 different nuts/cams trying to find something that works to give you the shaky leg. Also, before you head up a multi-pitch with gear anchors make sure you're solid on building multi-point anchors. Your life and your partners life are on the line.

Go climb, load up with gear and really sew up the routes. Placing lots of gear while climbing at a comfortable level will really help when you inevitably end up over your head at some point.

ollieon wrote:You could always practice aid climbing while top rope soloing.

That's how I think I learned best was aid climbing. Because you are actually placing and weighting the gear. No better way to find out if the piece you have just placed is any good by weighting and bounce testing it that will start to give you an eye for what might might fit and hold.

try to learn what you can and go for it.  I whipped on my second trad lead and my gear held no problem.

I would recommend dropping your grade so that you don't need to fall on your first couple of leads.  finding the proper size of cam or nut will take an extra minute.  and last, just relax.  Its not rocket science, all the over qualified people are just going to say ur going to die.  That is what they say to justify the thousands of dollars of courses.

You could also hire a guide and have them put you on a mock lead with two ropes, then follow the pitches to assess your placements. Have them take photos of your gear and rate each piece afterward. That’s what I do when I’m teaching.

If you post up for a trad mentor as previously suggested, please be sure to remunerate the person appropriately for their time. Beer, food, weed, whatever. Giving them a catch on their proj doesn’t really count. Their partners can do that.

What’s with the necroposting today? All sorts of thread revivals are popping up. By now, OP has probably realized that trad climbing is lame.

Watch Youtube
Lead single pitch easy routes. Maybe top rope them first if you can.
Build anchors on the ground.

Its not rocket science. 

Climb old school "the leader must not fall". Start with easy and sew everything up for both practice and safety. Double up pro at the cruxes and anywhere a fall would be a disaster, (ledges to hit etc). Work up slowly, back off when it's not easy and you can't sew it up. Be prepared to down climb before you start up the rock. Have the second report to you about how the gear looked and worked.

Nothing wrong with leading "scrambles". "Scrambles can take you to the top of some of the coolest mountains. There are a lot of spires and peaks with the hardest move
topping out 5.2 to 5.6.

Pick a belayer that shows responsibility in all parts of life. Learn together.
You'll find more experienced climbers soon enough to try harder stuff with. There's usually someone looking for a belayer.

I only got in one good weekend with a mentor before then teaming up with ppl that were also beginners/intermediates.

To re-iterate and reinforce some things that worked well in my learning process:

1. John Long's book 'Climbing Anchors' is a great resource - pictures are helpful.
2. Understanding how/why pieces fail (e.g. climbing *past* a nut - need to extend it)
3. Practicing making placements and building anchors on the ground / on boulders
4. Carrying lots of pro! (if you can afford it).  #sewitup

While less technical, I think it's easier for beginners to grasp what a good nut placement looks like vs a cam, so I think stopper nuts and offsets are a great resource for placing bomber pieces and reserving some inexpensive gear for potentially bailing if needed.  As in sport climbing, the developers and frequent contributors to guide's/MP/etc are usually very strong climbing enthusiasts, so bringing more gear than necessary is recommended for newer climbers (lightweight micro-cams hardly add weight!).

Being self taught can work.  I got through that phase.
However I don't recommend it, especially for someone who has to ask this question,
which implies that they aren't great at figuring out processes for themselves.
It is often more effective and funner to get hands on training if possible.  Books and videos require more focus to be effective.
And it is likely that their partner is even less qualified, so you are responsible for them.
There are many things that can go wrong besides just learning gear placements.
rope drag or stuck rope
stuck gear
complicated anchors
missing anchors
rappelling off weird anchors
communication

Simple and reliable option: Hire a certified guide. Looking for "mentors" reads like "I want to be taught a complex and mission-critical set of skills for free." Maybe a long time ago this made sense but even I, who started climbing basically solo decades ago, eventually hired instructors and learned a lot in the process.

Reading books won't do it, tagging along with a group of similarly inexperienced "climbers" won't do it, practicing placements on TR solo (WTF?) won't do it. Experienced climbers, especially older ones, have precious little time as it is and prefer not to spend it climbing with inexperienced and potentially risky partners. There are however climbers who will do this task for relatively modest compensation. They are called guides. That's who you should contact. They are trained to educate new climbers how to climb safely and well. Find the money, locate the guide service, explain what you want and spend a few days learning how to do it right.

Read, Andy kirkpatrick is probably one of the most comprehensive sources out there, check out mike barter, Glenmore Lodge, outdoor research all of these have great stuff on YouTube to demonstrate various techniques. Also just get out there once you know the basics of what not to do single pitch is pretty fucking hard to cock up if you're not trying to push yourself. 

i taught myself without a mentor and didn't die.  it was scary at times.  i've since had mentors, and the learning curve acceleration is real.

I love how so many are acting like all trad is multipitch class iv. Calm down. The dude can learn on single pitch trad and mixed routes. He does not need to know when to use doubles and how to build a franken- anchor. You learn that later, and it can be learned without a mentor. 

To gain confidence and learn good placements I would find a sport climb that I could place gear on and put a piece a little above a bolt that I had clipped, pull up a little slack and bail off. If it blew the bolt caught me. 

I learned most of it on my own. What makes a mentor or instructor/guide invaluable is critiquing your work. I taught myself to top rope and sport climb by reading books, etc. but I was smart enough to know that engineering a trad protection system is far more complicated and has much more room for error. I learned everything I could on my own, then took a two day trad leading class. After that I was ready to safely lead. Having someone knowledgeable check how well you made your placements, where you put your placements, and checking your anchor is very important to doing it safely.

The idea of just climb easy stuff and wing it is bad because you could fall because you slip or a hold breaks. Etc. You can die on 5.2 or 5.12 it doesn’t really matter. It’s your life. Make sure you know enough to do it right. I’ve seen plenty of people at the crags making really bad mistakes and if they fell at the wrong time it could be fatal.