When is the Gunks Reopening ?

Ryan Brown wrote:

Its NYS listed endangered. Should google it

Ryan, you really should. 

https://defenders.org/wildlife/peregrine-falcon

https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/pressrel/98-38.htm

https://www.edf.org/news/edf-applauds-peregrine-falcons-removal-endangered-species-list

Pierre de St Croix wrote:

Dude really? I love climbing in government owned areas. They're called National Parks, National Forests, etc... They seem to manage their climbing areas just as well as the Mohonk Preserve.

Yes, they try to shutdown climbing sometimes when we get out of control with our bolts and fires, but that's why we have the Access Fund.

Last time I checked it wasn't the government that was the problem, it was the administration in charge that was the problem.

Example:

"Bears Ears National Monument is a United States national monument located in San Juan County in southeastern Utah, established by President Barack Obama by presidential proclamation on December 28, 2016. The monument's original size was 1,351,849 acres (2,112.264 sq mi; 5,470.74 km2), which was controversially reduced 85% by President Donald Trump on December 4, 2017." 

Boycott the money grubbers then. Easy peasy dude. CT needs some love.

Peter T wrote:

I would not describe gunks climbers as very financially strapped and without stable jobs. Almost everyone I've met that climbs there is doing just fine. That said, it is getting to the point where gunks climbing is not accessible to a lot of people. 

That is life right? Should Porsche be forced into making an affordable rocket car?

 IPAs are getting pricey too...

chris p wrote:

Ryan, you really should. 

https://defenders.org/wildlife/peregrine-falcon

https://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/pressrel/98-38.htm

https://www.edf.org/news/edf-applauds-peregrine-falcons-removal-endangered-species-list

You posted links to federal guidelines. I specifically mentioned NYS guidelines that Mohonk Preserve and any other entity in NYS has to follow. 

As is such, Peregrine Falcons are still listed as NYS Endangered. Hence, the Preserve correctly states that they are still endangered. 

Ryan Brown wrote:

You posted links to federal guidelines. I specifically mentioned NYS guidelines that Mohonk Preserve and any other entity in NYS has to follow. 

As is such, Peregrine Falcons are still listed as NYS Endangered. Hence, the Preserve correctly states that they are still endangered. 

The peregrine falcons aren't endangered in the country but are in new York? Sounds like they are just avoiding that state. Can't say I blame them. 

A Non wrote:

Boycott the money grubbers then. Easy peasy dude. CT needs some love.

CT has been gettin a lot of love lately!

Easy to boycott when it’s closed to climbing and not any other activities!
Our passes cost more, but we still can’t use them?!?!
Planning/Researching (that’s for Ron) to use my National Parks this summer my dude!

National parks are overrated. Too many rules, federalies and obese soda drinkers. Arches NP opened the gate for a couple hours yesterday, the traffic jam of people waiting to get in looked like Disney World on a busy summer weekend. They closed the gate after a few hours.

I consider the gunks decisions about climbing to be solid. Its not the act of climbing that is the problem, its the magnet effect of bringing all the hotspot states together in one small preserve to spray all over each other. Contact tracing would be almost impossible.

A Non wrote: National parks are overrated. Too many rules, federalies and obese soda drinkers. Arches NP opened the gate for a couple hours yesterday, the traffic jam of people waiting to get in looked like Disney World on a busy summer weekend. They closed the gate after a few hours.

I consider the gunks decisions about climbing to be solid. Its not the act of climbing that is the problem, its the magnet effect of bringing all the hotspot states together in one small preserve to spray all over each other. Contact tracing would be almost impossible.

I agree that the contact tracing would be impossible!

As far as National Parks...

I didn’t see a single soul last summer at the top of the Grand Teton after climbing the complete Exum in a day, except my climbing partner of course. Maybe you’re just bad a picking the right National Parks at the right time.

Pierre de St Croix wrote:

I agree that the contact tracing would be impossible!

As far as National Parks...

I didn’t see a single soul last summer at the top of the Grand Teton after climbing the complete Exum in a day, except my climbing partner of course. Maybe you’re just bad a picking the right National Parks at the right time.

Last time I did the Exum in the summer there was a literal traffic jam in the middle, probably 20 folks waiting to rope up for the same pitch. Luckily we were done with the rope and just passed everyone. You must wake up earlier than most.

Pierre de St Croix wrote:

I didn’t see a single soul last summer at the top of the Grand Teton...

You can't compare last summer to this summer. Totally different situations, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

People who use to never go out hiking or to parks are now doing just that. 

Pierre de St Croix wrote:

I didn’t see a single soul last summer at the top of the Grand Teton after climbing the complete Exum in a day, except my climbing partner of course. Maybe you’re just bad a picking the right National Parks at the right time.

I've climbed the complete Exum twice and the upper Exum alone 3 more times.  Along with 6 other ascents of the Grand.  Never had the ascent to myself and the descent tended to be a zoo of NOT social distancing people.  I did do those climbs in nice weather in mid summer.  But I'd say the Grand in good conditions in the summer is NOT the place to find solitude.  There are other places in GTNP where you could expect to be alone.

Eric Engberg wrote:

I've climbed the complete Exum twice and the upper Exum alone 3 more times.  Along with 6 other ascents of the Grand.  Never had the ascent to myself and the descent tended to be a zoo of NOT social distancing people.  I did do those climbs in nice weather in mid summer.  But I'd say the Grand in good conditions in the summer is NOT the place to find solitude.  There are other places in GTNP where you could expect to be alone.

You'd have to get off the beaten track to have genuine solitude in the Tetons.  But there are loads of places and good climbs where there won't be actual crowds, and even some of the trade routes such as  Guides Wall can have just two or three parties in a day.

Eric Engberg wrote:

I've climbed the complete Exum twice and the upper Exum alone 3 more times.  Along with 6 other ascents of the Grand.  Never had the ascent to myself and the descent tended to be a zoo of NOT social distancing people.  I did do those climbs in nice weather in mid summer.  But I'd say the Grand in good conditions in the summer is NOT the place to find solitude.  There are other places in GTNP where you could expect to be alone.

I’ll admit it was windy as hell so that’s probably why nobody was with us. The point was, National Parks have good climbing without tons of people if you go to the right places.

Ryan Brown wrote: You can't compare last summer to this summer. Totally different situations, it's like comparing apples to oranges.

People who use to never go out hiking or to parks are now doing just that. 

The point wasn’t to compare summers, which actually doesn’t start until 6/21/20. The point was that one can find good climbing in National Parks, which aren’t run by “federalies”, but by Rangers who play dual roles as naturalists and law enforcement. We pay to visit these lands, but these lands are protected with our tax dollars. 

The Mohonk Preserve is different obviously. While we wait to hear when it’s safe to climb again (makes sense), we also wait to understand what is being done with the passes we’ve bought beyond what has already been stated.
Most of us on here have bought passes to climb, which cost more. At some point, I’m assuming the Preserve will clearly communicate what will be done for those of us that have spent the money on passes that we can’t currently use.

Have the gyms refunded anyones money? I haven't heard about that from anyone and we have no gyms here in Anonville so I wouldn't know. I do know what I had been hearing was to keep supporting the gyms financially so they dont go under. 

A Non wrote: Have the gyms refunded anyones money? I haven't heard about that from anyone and we have no gyms here in Anonville so I wouldn't know. I do know what I had been hearing was to keep supporting the gyms financially so they dont go under. 

Some gyms were asking people not to cancel their memberships, which depending on the gym, could cost anywhere from 6x - 14x annually, compared to a membership to the Preserve. Didn’t hear anyone complaining about that. By all means, support you local gym if you have the means, but if you’re doing that, don’t come here to bitch about a preserve membership that breaks down to less than $10 a month. Chew on that math.

Pierre de St Croix wrote:

The point wasn’t to compare summers, which actually doesn’t start until 6/21/20. The point was that one can find good climbing in National Parks, which aren’t run by “federalies”, but by Rangers who play dual roles as naturalists and law enforcement. We pay to visit these lands, but these lands are protected with our tax dollars. 

The Mohonk Preserve is different obviously. While we wait to hear when it’s safe to climb again (makes sense), we also wait to understand what is being done with the passes we’ve bought beyond what has already been stated.
Most of us on here have bought passes to climb, which cost more. At some point, I’m assuming the Preserve will clearly communicate what will be done for those of us that have spent the money on passes that we can’t currently use.

Ahhh I see. Misinterpreted your statement but understand now.

If the Preserve doesn't send out a PSA about climbing pass extensions once climbing is reopened, I'll be really surprised. 

just for clarity over  5,000 new cases and over a thousand people died this week from covid in NY... 

To map out the issue:  Not all the volunteers and Mohonk Preserve staff evacuating climbers would be "low risk".  So, let's say you fall and need a rescue, and let's say there are volunteers available.  In case you haven't heard, volunteers are not required to help you, but they probably will.  And you probably haven't had a COVID-19 antibody test, and you probably don't know if you are carrying COVID-19.  SO, if you fall, none of us volunteers know if we will be exposed to COVID-19.  Is there a reason why we should risk our lives for you?  And is there a reason why the Mohonk Preserve staff should also be involved in the rescue?  And why do you think that none of the volunteers or staff might all be COVID-19 negative?  Net result, we all could be exposed.

In other words, if you can get COVID-19 at a birthday party, with hugs and kisses, you can get COVID-19 at a rescue, as volunteers and staff labor moving someone across the talus and trail to the truck and the ambulance / helicopter, where other rescue professionals await, and from there to the hospital.

Brassmonkey wrote:

In case you haven't heard, its not as deadly as they previously thought, not as contagious as they previously thought, cases and deaths are dropping significantly,

Any other questions?

Question - can you send some links to what you are "hearing"?  Both before and after ones - so we can see what you think has changed?