Webbing Layering Design Question

Read the thread AND look at the commercial products, cord is a non-starter.

Jim Titt wrote: Read the thread AND look at the commercial products, cord is a non-starter.

other than this 

"Thanks for the ideas, but rope is not the preferred option for the design. First, using webbing as safety lines helps differentiate it from rope used for mechanical operations; and second, rope tends to role more easily underfoot when on deck which means it presents more of a general hazard. For my design and application therefore, webbing is the better option. I appreciate the idea though, thanks."

What did I miss? Are you saying someone would put the daughters lanyard in a winch by accident. And what about webbing anchor chains? Throw the daughter overboard after mistaking the PAS?

I think the single strand with multiple attachment points would be less to tangle, web or cord.

Thanks again for the help everyone, I appreciate all the input and ideas.

Ackley The Improved wrote: If only one lanyard at a time is to be attached, they should be sewn together or formed from 1 strand to keep loose strands from tangling etc

Dynamic cord with a scaffolding knot at each end and at the mid points would hold the snap hooks in place, not tangle as easily, and reduce the force of a fall.

Thanks for the idea and I understand certain cord has more elasticity than webbing. My concern is that because only two snap hooks will only ever be in use at one time, there will always be two spare and requiring a stowage solution. Consequently, there is always a tangle hazard to be addressed. To resolve this, I plan to include a simple D-ring at the harness / life jacket anchor which can be used to attach the two tether legs which are not in use.

Dave Olsen wrote: What did I miss? Are you saying someone would put the daughters lanyard in a winch by accident. And what about webbing anchor chains? Throw the daughter overboard after mistaking the PAS?

I think the single strand with multiple attachment points would be less to tangle, web or cord. 

Thanks for the suggestion; I apologize if I was unclear. While I understand there is a wide variety of quality cord/rope, neither is an option for the application for a few reasons. First, rope is often used for mechanical operations (halyards, dock lines, etc.), and when on the deck for whatever reason tends to present much more of an underfoot hazard due to the fact it rolls much more easily than webbing. Second, I plan to use climb spec tubular webbing for its strength and quality and as I develop the design, I may potentially consider threading shock cord inside the tubular webbing to provide some (rudimentary) shock absorption capabilities. The other advantage of this technique is that it reduces the overall length of the tether legs when not in use which also helps reduce the potential safety risk through them hanging loose or maybe tangling. Also, given how the tether will be manufactured, webbing is the better choice and allows for simple inspection for any wear and tear.

Dylan B. wrote: Why not a PAS or a daisy chain? 

Essentially, this is what I am trying to design, but more bespoke to suit the characteristics of the boat and which is suited to the specific positions my daughter likes to occupy around the boat. While I understand that PAS/daisy chains are effective, they don’t provide the exactness or the operational requirements for the application which must allow for my daughter’s reduced understanding of the importance and function safety tethers (I hope that makes sense). Thanks for the idea though; I appreciate it!

Russ Walling wrote: Put an integrated "fall arrest/load limiter" on the main attachment point.... a couple of wings secured in a lycra sheath will take your shock load right out of the system.  

All this is pretty simple to do with webbing, but I still think you have sorta lost the plot on this thing, and are going way "overboard" on the design.

Thanks very much for the load limiter idea; that's a great thought and I'll work on integrating it into my design.

I appreciate my specifications may appear excessive to some degree; I just want to ensure I'm doing the absolute best thing to keep my daughter safe while on the boat - something which she loves being a part of!

I really appreciate all your ideas and advice - thanks very much again.

Russ Walling wrote:

Agreed...

 yeah the load limiter cell could be the game changer.  Bartacks, real ones, will start to rip at a few hundred pounds if I recall.  But you can do the same thing with a straight stitch and get a much lower ripping point.  I made some a long time Ago that started to rip at about 250lbs.  Tuck those wings away like Yates used to do in lycra and you should be pretty compact and take the jolt out of any loading of the lanyard.  This will also show if there has been a load applied during a periodic visual inspection.

Thanks for the note on load limiter design; I'll make sure to include this for sure.

Many thanks again for all the help; I appreciate it!

“Thanks for the idea and I understand certain cord has more elasticity than webbing. My concern is that because only two snap hooks will only ever be in use at one time, there will always be two spare and requiring a stowage solution. Consequently, there is always a tangle hazard to be addressed. To resolve this, I plan to include a simple D-ring at the harness / life jacket anchor which can be used to attach the two tether legs which are not in use.“

Distant unused snap hooks can be clipped back to near one. Like when a rappel tether is clipped back to the belay loop when using an extended rappel with combined tether.

Ackley The Improved wrote: “Thanks for the idea and I understand certain cord has more elasticity than webbing. My concern is that because only two snap hooks will only ever be in use at one time, there will always be two spare and requiring a stowage solution. Consequently, there is always a tangle hazard to be addressed. To resolve this, I plan to include a simple D-ring at the harness / life jacket anchor which can be used to attach the two tether legs which are not in use.“

Distant unused snap hooks can be clipped back to near one. Like when a rappel tether is clipped back to the belay loop when using an extended rappel with combined tether.

Funny moniker...I fire formed some .338-06 Ackley Improved rounds last weekend...

Sounds like that would be good for wapati. My grandad was a contemporary smith to P.O. Even looked like him. I have a 275 RIgby improved he made for my mom.

generic all purpose thread

That's a big variable right there, get some quality heavier duty thread before bothering with experiments :)

(Though I'm not sure what you're trying to demonstrate, stitch pattern, count, thread, base material, can all be chosen to make something you can pull apart by hand.)

Another brainstorm, have the metal snap hooks attached to the boat and have only webbing attached to the person avoid getting whacked by a loose tether.

Russ and Jim brought this up so here is some more brainstorm. If you are planning to have some sort of indicator of force applied - a 42 stitch bartack of B69 nylon breaks at over 1 Kn in shear. Additional bartacks are somewhat additive but take more to hold the same "weight" as the force isn't distributed as evenly as the number of tacks goes up. The outside ones will take more of the load. B69 polyester might be more suitable to sailing elements, I don't know but the breaking point would likely be about 7/10ths that of the nylon when new. The sail makers loft should be consulted for proper thread.

So you could stitch it in a way to have the force first applied to an outer bartack(s) that would give way if those forces were exceeded, in extreme events. More data to help make stuff safe for the little girl.

Ackley The Improved wrote: Sounds like that would be good for wapati. My grandad was a contemporary smith to P.O. Even looked like him. I have a 275 RIgby improved he made for my mom.

There are a lot more bullets for .338 than a .35 or 9.3mm, and can take down just about anything...A .375 H&H would be better for dangerous game, but I only hunt herbivores.

Buck Rio wrote:

There are a lot more bullets for .338 than a .35 or 9.3mm, and can take down just about anything...A .375 H&H would be better for dangerous game, but I only hunt herbivores.

Do u just resize 06 brass or buy A square? What’s your fav load?

The little Rigby uses up to 175 grain like the original Mausers.

Ackley The Improved wrote:

Do u just resize 06 brass or buy A square? What’s your fav load?

The little Rigby uses up to 175 grain like the original Mausers.

I have about 500 empties that I sort by weight/brand, and then pick the most consistent of the lots for expanding and fireforming.  I haven't shot enough to have a favorite yet, but my guess is it will be whatever the rifle tells me it likes best, powder/bullet/case/primer/seating depth etc. 

I'm going to start with Varget, H4350 and RL-19 and a 210 Nosler Partition. Try and get 2600 fps and inside 1 MOA. All I can ask for really.

Jesus, I just read you are using 175 in that little cartridge?  Long throat on those Weatherby's..

Buck Rio wrote:

I have about 500 empties that I sort by weight/brand, and then pick the most consistent of the lots for expanding and fireforming.  I haven't shot enough to have a favorite yet, but my guess is it will be whatever the rifle tells me it likes best, powder/bullet/case/primer/seating depth etc. 

I'm going to start with Varget, H4350 and RL-19 and a 210 Nosler Partition. Try and get 2600 fps and inside 1 MOA. All I can ask for really.

Jesus, I just read you are using 175 in that little cartridge?  Long throat on those Weatherby's..

275 not 375

Like Bell used for elephants