New Car Help

Glowering wrote: 2021 Toyota Sienna minivan is coming, only hybrid. AWD available. 30+mpg. I had a Sienna in the past when my kid was in a car seat (sliding doors are so good for that). But it was also an awesome road trip vehicle. Tons of room. 3rd row folds into floor so you can camp in it and still have seating for 4-5 if needed. But ground clearance was minimal. Not how the new one will be, but marketing photos show it out in the boonies.

IMO wagons and minivans are underrated adventure vehicles.

Wagons - all the handling benefits of a sedan with the space of a crossover
minivans - all the space of an SUV with gas mileage that doesn't break the bank

ground clearance is the obvious detractor, but people underestimate how far you can get with a good driver...

I highly suggest a RAV4. I am 6'3 and slept in it for a month with my significant other.

Pretty good gas mileage and have been over some scary winter passes with it with no problem.

Also when you take it off pavement it has a really good turn radius so you can pick and choose your line really well when getting rowdy.

When my RAV dies or if it dies I will get another. 

I've just read/watched a bunch of comparisons between the Outback, Forester, RAV4, and CRV. It seems that the Subarus are pretty universally accepted as better handling on most surfaces, albeit underpowered on base models. They also seem to be more utilitarian with cargo space, and have slightly better mpg (again, base models). Of course, Honda and Toyota seem to have Subaru beat on long term ownership/repair costs. The new hybrid RAV4 sounds great, but starting at 30+k, it's more than I want to spend. I did look for some used Siennas too, but the low clearance + length and not great mpg is problematic for me. I'm still waiting to hear back from some shops about just getting a lift on the Impreza. And not that aesthetics are a very high priority to me, but those Crosstreks sure are sharp looking! 

Brandon R wrote: I've just read/watched a bunch of comparisons between the Outback, Forester, RAV4, and CRV. It seems that the Subarus are pretty universally accepted as better handling on most surfaces, albeit underpowered on base models. They also seem to be more utilitarian with cargo space, and have slightly better mpg (again, base models). Of course, Honda and Toyota seem to have Subaru beat on long term ownership/repair costs. The new hybrid RAV4 sounds great, but starting at 30+k, it's more than I want to spend. I did look for some used Siennas too, but the low clearance + length and not great mpg is problematic for me. I'm still waiting to hear back from some shops about just getting a lift on the Impreza. And not that aesthetics are a very high priority to me, but those Crosstreks sure are sharp looking! 

Lifts on Imprezas are pretty straight forward. Depending on year, get the struts and springs from same year Forester(avoid self leveling rear struts at all cost). or just get spacers all around.

I'd recommend looking at a Pontiac Vibe, it's a very underrated car! Same motor as the Toyota Matrix. Back seats fold down flat and it has a plastic floor, I can sleep fully stretched out and I'm 6'2". I have the 6speed FWD, but you can get an AWD model. Mine gets >30mpg on the highway at 70mph. Clearance isn't nearly what a truck is, but it's a relatively short wheelbase and approach angle is pretty good. If MPG and reliability are big priorities, I'd skip the Subaru and go for a Vibe.

The 33 thousand I spent on my 2006 Toyota Tacoma manual transmission 4x4 was well worth it.
Still running perfectly 14 years and 250.000 miles later. only in the shop once just a few months ago for a leaky timing chain
cover. I do all the other maintenance myself. Brakes, oil, plugs etc.

Eric Danner wrote: I highly suggest a RAV4. I am 6'3 and slept in it for a month with my significant other.

Pretty good gas mileage and have been over some scary winter passes with it with no problem.

Also when you take it off pavement it has a really good turn radius so you can pick and choose your line really well when getting rowdy.

When my RAV dies or if it dies I will get another. 

Which model year do you have? And do you have the hybrid? Been thinking about getting a hybrid as most of my vehicle use is about to become long drives on the weekend to get places. 

Sean Anderson wrote:

Which model year do you have? And do you have the hybrid? Been thinking about getting a hybrid as most of my vehicle use is about to become long drives on the weekend to get places. 

I have the 2011 AWD. Thing is a champ. I can't wait to get a hybrid version. The new one coming out next year gets 90 mpg! So in 8 years, I can pick up one of those used haha. 

If you can get a newer hybrid one I would say it is well worth the cash.

Just to make a point, I really like the RAV4, but we recently went to a new area where an acquaintance high centered his RAV4 several times, and decided to retreat. I am not the best off-road driver, but the trail/wash felt trivial in a Tacoma.

the schmuck wrote: Just to make a point, I really like the RAV4, but we recently went to a new area where an acquaintance high centered his RAV4 several times, and decided to retreat. I am not the best person off-road driver, but the trail/wash felt trivial in a Tacoma.

I know there are trails where you absolutely need a high clearance 4WD vehicle, but I took my (then) GF''s 2nd generation RAV4 into some really funky country and I drove my Volvo XC60 AWD back past some 4 wheelers who asked how I managed to make it down that road/wash.  It never occurred to a few that you could drive around the rocks and dips.

Sean Anderson wrote:

Which model year do you have? And do you have the hybrid? Been thinking about getting a hybrid as most of my vehicle use is about to become long drives on the weekend to get places. 

If mostly “long drives” why a hybrid? More components, weight. Most ownes I know have those to tame the 3-8 mph stop n go traffic in West LA. 

A friend just got a 17 RAV 4 .... nice ride 

A 2017 Rav4 hybrid version will usually do the same freeway (smaller gas engine makes up for the added weight). And about 11 mpg better city. If all freeway it's not worth the premium up front cost for the hybrid. But as a daily driver you'll have local miles too.

Toyota's hybrid system is awesome. The transaxle is great engineering, simple, robust, long lasting, efficient. I love the efficiency: the gas engine shuts down when not needed, it regenerates energy when you come to a stop, etc. My current plug in hybrid is even better. If you go down a long grade (coming down from the mountains) it charges the battery and I get all electric miles from energy that would have otherwise just burned up my brake pads. In mixed driving I get about 63 mpg in my Prius. Getting 73 lately with the shutdown and more local driving. with The plug in Rav4 should be awesome. Like Eric I'll wait until I can get a used one in a few years.

The suggestion of a Vibe is good. It's a Toyota with Pontiac badging. But maybe hard to find one with low miles, especially  with AWD.

Another option I've see is a Transit Connect van. Good small camper conversion. But not much clearance.

I've had the same thing where people at a hot springs by Bishop were asking me how I got my Prius down the rough road. Got to place your tires in the best spots and take the humps diagonally.

Guy Keesee wrote:

If mostly “long drives” why a hybrid? More components, weight. Most ownes I know have those to tame the 3-8 mph stop n go traffic in West LA. 

A friend just got a 17 RAV 4 .... nice ride 

Ah haha. That was an illogical statement on my part! I'm intending to drive it around town during the week and then use it for weekend "long drives" as well. I don't think I can justify two separate vehicles currently. From a brief comparison of the 2020 rav4 le and rav4 hybrid le, it looks like the hybrid gets maybe 3 more mpg on the highway, which of course wouldn't be worth the extra cash if it was just used for hwy purposes.

Sean Anderson wrote:

Which model year do you have? And do you have the hybrid? Been thinking about getting a hybrid as most of my vehicle use is about to become long drives on the weekend to get places. 

If you're thinking of buying a new Rav4 hybrid, and can wait a bit... buy the Rav4 Prime. I believe it will not lose any cargo space and you qualify for the Federal Tax Credit (assuming you have enough tax liability for the full credit - it is $7500). Additionally you get $1,000 back from CA with a rebate, and potentially your local electric utility will also offer a rebate.

Bottom line, a Prime will cost you less than the hybrid. After realizing this, my wife bought a Prius Prime last year. The CA rebate was higher at $1500 at the time, but the Fed was $4500 due to the smaller battery size vs the Rav4. Also got $1000 back from SoCal Edison. Along with some additional incentives and negotiating, we netted $10k+ off of the MSRP, making the Prime much lower cost (by thousands) vs a regular Prius. (if you can't tell, I am an avid deal hunter and post in the deal thread often)

Due to COVID, though, the Rav4 Prime is likely delayed until the fall. It was supposed to be for sale this summer.

Sean Anderson wrote:

Ah haha. That was an illogical statement on my part! I'm intending to drive it around town during the week and then use it for weekend "long drives" as well. I don't think I can justify two separate vehicles currently. From a brief comparison of the 2020 rav4 le and rav4 hybrid le, it looks like the hybrid gets maybe 3 more mpg on the highway, which of course wouldn't be worth the extra cash if it was just used for hwy purposes.

For the price of one of these 2020 rav4s you could buy two old vehicles and still have $20K  left over. It would be easy to get a great commuter and a capable off road vehicle, just older with high miles. I have owned a several sub $2k cars. 

The stressing about gas cost of a few mpg is overblown.  Take the $20k you saved and put in into a good investment. You will be able to easily cover the cost of the gas difference and a new to you old car on the investment income alone. 

Leron wrote:

For the price of one of these 2020 rav4s you could buy two old vehicles and still have $20K  left over. It would be easy to get a great commuter and a capable off road vehicle, just older with high miles. I have owned a several sub $2k cars. 

The stressing about gas cost of a few mpg is overblown. 

I did a 5 year analysis of different options when I was deciding what to buy. Including insurance, depreciation, opportunity cost of money spent. 

I decided against a single SUV (at least big enough to tow a medium sized trailer) and bought a Prius and a big truck. The Prius saved about $1400 a year in gas for my usage. I got a low miles used Prius as a daily driver / anytime I don’t need the capability of the truck. The truck only gets a few thousand miles most years. 
Of course it all depends on how much money you have and how nice of a car you want to spend you’re money on. I want nice cars (excellent condition) with no hassles so I usually spend $12000-$16000 on a vehicle. I could afford to spend a lot more but why? I could easily spend twice as much (eg buying new) but that would not be worth double to me. 

Glowering wrote:

I did a 5 year analysis of different options when I was deciding what to buy. Including insurance, depreciation, opportunity cost of money spent. 

I decided against a single SUV (at least big enough to tow a medium sized trailer) and bought a Prius and a big truck. The Prius saved about $1400 a year in gas for my usage. I got a low miles used Prius as a daily driver / anytime I don’t need the capability of the truck. The truck only gets a few thousand miles most years. 
Of course it all depends on how much money you have and how nice of a car you want to spend you’re money on. I want nice cars (excellent condition) with no hassles so I usually spend $12000-$16000 on a vehicle. I could afford to spend a lot more but why? I could easily spend twice as much (eg buying new) but that would not be worth double to me. 

This is exactly the same route I went. We have a high mileage suv that only sees about 2k miles per year and is strictly reserved for camping and accessing remote trailheads. My daily driver is 11 years old and gets 30mpg. Combined, we pay less than $1000/year in insurance and both vehicles cost a combined $19k when purchased. 

Leron wrote:

For the price of one of these 2020 rav4s you could buy two old vehicles and still have $20K  left over. It would be easy to get a great commuter and a capable off road vehicle, just older with high miles. I have owned a several sub $2k cars. 

The stressing about gas cost of a few mpg is overblown.  Take the $20k you saved and put in into a good investment. You will be able to easily cover the cost of the gas difference and a new to you old car on the investment income alone. 

You're ignoring vehicle storage costs some of us have to worry about.  But even so, you're right that getting a cheap old gas guzzling off road vehicle may be a better deal than shelling out for a newer, more efficient one.

I also would never buy a new $50,000 SUV (even a Jeep Wrangler) and do any serious off road in it. Any real off road is going to beat on it. (Dust, scratches from tree branches, etc)  You could get a $30K Subaru and a $20K used Jeep and then have fun in the Jeep and not worry about it. And the Suby would be way nicer to drive on the road. 

I'm in the one car situation for now. I do see how 2 vehicles can work nicely but don't have the parking for that.

Does anyone have any experience with one of the older toyota highlander hybrids (pre-2008)?

Ideally I would find an efficient car with 4WD not AWD, but it seems like AWD is the name of the game now. Most people (namely myself) need 4WD only a small fraction of the time.