Mammut Smart vs Mega Jul on Rappel

I got the Smart and I've found the autoblock on rappel works too well!  Thing is jerky as hell and that's even with a wider, more gradual radius on the locker (note, you can't even use a sharper radius head on your locker because it won't fit around the wide profile of the device).

Just want to get some possible thoughts on whether I'm doing something wrong.  Does the meja jull rap much cleaner but still provide the backup on rap as well?  As I said, the locking on rap for sure works with the smart and is quite a comforting feeling (not that I enjoy taking my brake hand off).

Thanks

The smart does take getting used to on rappel. I remember seeing somewhere a suggestion that you can flip it and feed in the rope differently and get a rappel without the autoblock that feeds a lot smoother. 

The smart is sort of awful, relative to the megajul anyways. It's so big and clunky and also jerky AF, generally overdesigned. The megajul can be easily flipped for a normal, non auto-blocking rappel (great feature and pretty intuitive), if you choose to use the brake-assist it is also a little jerky, but actually works pretty well on slightly shorter ropes. I pref backwards with a 3rd hand/friction hitch for long/big raps but that's me.

Do not extend the megajul for rappel!!!! But flipped and off your belay loop it pretty much becomes an ATC

For a few extra grams (and dollars), you could get the GigaJul, which is supposed to address those issues. 

Ben Ha wrote: Do not extend the megajul for rappel!!!! But flipped and off your belay loop it pretty much becomes an ATC

Do you mean: don't extend when flipped? Or just when it is faced forward? I could see it being harder to put into a jug system if you pass a rap or whatever if extended with flip i guess...

Brandon R wrote: For a few extra grams (and dollars), you could get the GigaJul, which is supposed to address those issues. 

Maybe I should have put more time into it but the gigajul seemed like a lot of machine, and was a little bit too grippy/jerky. Just didn't seem like the kind of device I would want to use at night after climbing all day on adventures where weight matters and being half a zombie (the general context of megajul use for me).

I've used it a grand total of ~ 3 pitches before hanging it up indefinitely...

Alex Styp wrote:

Maybe I should have put more time into it but the gigajul seemed like a lot of machine, and was a little bit too grippy/jerky. Just didn't seem like the kind of device I would want to use at night after climbing all day on adventures where weight matters and being half a zombie (the general context of megajul use for me).

I've used it a grand total of ~ 3 pitches before hanging it up indefinitely...

Good to know. I was thinking about getting one, but maybe not. 

I've found that the Smart Alpine is highly sensitive to extending it to the right length and getting it to a placement where I can easily push up on the lever. Once I figured that out I was much happier on long rappels. Basically you want to end up with it right in front of your shoulder. 

Alex Styp wrote:

Do you mean: don't extend when flipped? Or just when it is faced forward? I could see it being harder to put into a jug system if you pass a rap or whatever if extended with flip i guess...

If it's flipped, it's basically impossible to switch to a jug system.  When it is backwards it locks when you try to pull slack through to ascend.  For that reason I wouldn't use a flipped megajul if I was the first to rappel on a multipitch and there is a chance of missing the next anchor.  In single pitch or if your partner has already found the next anchor, then no problem.

Just use Alpine Smart off your belay loop and it works fine. Test it before you trust it and disconnect your tether.

There’s some technique to it, you have to find the right balance between opening the device vs. brake hand pressure. I find it’s smoothest when I open it until I am mostly controlling my speed with my brake hand. 

Just flip the Smart so the lever faces you, this turns it into a normal ATC. Extend and use a prusik just like normal!

Senor Arroz wrote: I've found that the Smart Alpine is highly sensitive to extending it to the right length and getting it to a placement where I can easily push up on the lever. Once I figured that out I was much happier on long rappels. Basically you want to end up with it right in front of your shoulder. 

Ya this makes the most sense.  Just based on the physics, rapping with these devices on your belay loop will get you the most braking force since your CG is nearest to the bend in the strands. Extending is kinda a pain in the ass tho.  

I could see the gigajul having the same issue simply because to achieve any auto blocking force on a device you need your body weight to be doing the braking.   

Peter BrownWhale wrote:

If it's flipped, it's basically impossible to switch to a jug system.  When it is backwards it locks when you try to pull slack through to ascend.  For that reason I wouldn't use a flipped megajul if I was the first to rappel on a multipitch and there is a chance of missing the next anchor.  In single pitch or if your partner has already found the next anchor, then no problem.

Could you explain this? Couldn't you hang on a prussic above the device, tie into a fig8 on a bite beneath the device as a backup, then just flip the device and start jugging?

I’ve been using a gigajul for a while now and really like it. Rappelling 20 pitches in the dark isn’t a problem.  Really intuitive and works just like an ATC but with steel wear plates. 

Jared Chrysostom wrote: There’s some technique to it, you have to find the right balance between opening the device vs. brake hand pressure. I find it’s smoothest when I open it until I am mostly controlling my speed with my brake hand. 

Ya I definitely tinkered with it for a few raps.  It almost seemed less secure trying to find the correct balance of lever push up to move expediently yet under control.  I imagine gloves would help, but not thats very alpine. Basically, it seems about 5x easier with an ATC to find the sweet spot and I'd think easier to correct if you lost control (assuming you didnt let go).  Then again, if you freak with the smart, just letting go is better than just letting go on an atc....

Will have to try the turning it around and using it as an ATC but it makes sense haha.  But then why not just take the tried and true, lighter and not dracula cock looking ATC then!

ThomasR wrote:

Could you explain this? Couldn't you hang on a prussic above the device, tie into a fig8 on a bite beneath the device as a backup, then just flip the device and start jugging?

Yeah, but with an extended rappel + flipped device + friction hitch beneath the device, you'd have to be able to reach above your extended device to make a second hitch and transfer body weight to the upper hitch, then what you said would follow. Big pain. If you rap on one of these in "assist" mode you only need add a hitch above the device and start jugging. Maybe impossible depending on extension length/lot of work vs easy street, respectively. 

ThomasR wrote:

Couldn't you hang on a prussic above the device, tie into a fig8 on a bite beneath the device as a backup, then just flip the device and start jugging?

Also a pain in the ass but sweet and worth noting.  

abe r wrote: dracula cock looking

I can’t unread this. 

I've got a gigajul and really like it. It sucks for rapping in "locking mode" though. I believe the instructions also say it's not ideal.  It works in a pinch and is worth doing for testing, but flipping it and using an autoblock is the way to go.